[wasmainiac]

> They use this game engine in the 2026 RAV4

Funny how “game engines” are now car parts in 2026.

Can I just have an electric car that’s a car and nothing else? Seats, wheels pedals, mirrors, real buttons, no displays just a aux jack. I’d buy it, hell I might even take the risk and pre-order it

[munificent]

> no displays

In the US, no. Backup cameras are required by federal law as of 2018. The intent of the law was to reduce the number of children killed by being backed over because the driver couldn't see them behind the car.

[bobthepanda]

It is crazy how many things are downstream of the structural issue where US regulations favor ginormous SUVs and pickups where this is a problem, but if we introduced legislation to fix this we would end up ruining US automakers which have pivoted almost entirely to this segment alone

[kimbernator]

While I agree with you that the issue is far worse with larger vehicles, I do find that backing up in my wife's 2011 camry (without a backup camera) feels significantly less safe than I feel backing up my 2017 accord with a backup camera. I'm all for fixing the structural issue you are referring to, but I think the requirement for those cameras is sane in an age where the added cost to the manufacturer is miniscule.

[Zancarius]

I have to agree. Backing up my Tundra (8' bed) feels substantially safer since I can see immediately behind the vehicle than any pre-regulation vehicle I've driven. That doesn't even account for the convenience with lining up for towing, hauling, etc. (It's no replacement for GOAL—Get Out And Look—but it definitely helps!)

[harrall]

I like it because I can see kids, no matter what vehicle I’m in.

I have unusually good spatial skills. I have parallel parked and reverse parked perfectly every single time for over 5 years…

…but no matter what, I cannot see behind my bumper. No mirror on any car points there.

[jjmarr]

The law was passed due to sustained lobbying from a man, Greg Gulbransen, who ran over his child

[RHSeeger]

I bought a new car last year (my first actual _new_ car, vs pre-owned) and one of my most important features was a 360 camera. That extra visibility is just amazing for safety.

Another was a HUD. Being able to see how fast I'm going, what the speed limit is, and other info; all while keeping my eyes on the road... is safer.

[jnrk]

I agree. Going back to a car without a 360 camera is unthinkable now that I've gotten so used to it...

[abustamam]

This makes my wife's Tesla seem very outdated. It only gets a rear camera when backing up, and a side camera when activating a turn signal.

[allenrb]

Give me a backup camera without a screen and then we’ll talk. Doubly so because once you’ve got that screen, no automaker will resist making it do other things.

[tempest_]

My 2010 Tacoma has a 2 inch square in the rear view mirror that works wonderfully.

[allenrb]

I actually like that a lot. Does the job without providing a (practical) target for infotainment. TIL.

[falcor84]

You piqued my interest. What is the alternative output for a camera without a screen?

[glaslong]

These days I guess we could do gpt with voice out to recite a poem about the kid you're about to hit?

[JoeBOFH]

My old F150 had a screen in the rear view mirror. I miss that.

[tracker1]

My SO's Buick Enclave has a screen behind the rearview mirror that can be set to show the backup camera. Works okay, but I prefer the actual mirror and just use the dash display. That said, vision issues, so not driving since around this time last year.

[tracker1]

I think it was a Dodge Neon from the early 00s that had the worst rear view I'd experienced. My Challenger was close, but the backup camera and blind spot sensors helped a lot. You could hide a bus in the blind spot on a Challenger, not to mention the passenger seat headrest blocks most of the corner/A window.

[alt227]

Its not just the added cost, its the supply chain. Putting cameras into cars requires processors, ram, all manner of chips and compnents that a car didnt need before.

There was the chip shortage during covid which held car production back becasue the auto makers couldnt source their chips fast enough. I am waiting to see if the current supply issue for ram chips modules will produce a similar effect.

[ncallaway]

> Putting cameras into cars requires processors, ram, all manner of chips and compnents that a car didnt need before.

Was there a single mass market consumer car sold in the United States in this millennium that didn’t already have processors and RAM in them?

I would be absolutely shocked if there was a single car for which the relatively recent backup camera requirement required them to introduce processors and RAM for the first time.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

I’m pretty sure that you can buy aftermarket backup cameras. The car can be a dumb bunny, and still have a good camera.

[dotancohen]

I believe that in some vehicles the backup camera actually runs on a separate (possibly real time, otherwise certainly heavily nice'ed) system. Tesla has a recall where they had to nice the backup camera software. The problem was if the display freezes or is delayed, then the driver is backing up and not aware that he doesn't see where he is going (he thinks that what he sees is representative of the area around the car currently).

[hedgehog]

Stability control, pre-collision braking, lane departure warnings, the complexity is pretty inevitable as we improve the safety of vehicles.

[bastawhiz]

> Putting cameras into cars requires processors, ram, all manner of chips and compnents that a car didnt need before.

Call me old fashioned but in my opinion, processors/ram/chips/components are a good trade-off versus squished children

[TylerE]

All cars have required "chips" since OBDII was mandated in the early 90s. That ship has sailed around the world, returned to port, and sailed again.

[nebezb]

All of that is worth the extra safety.

[AngryData]

I mean you can buy add-on 3rd party backup cameras for like $20. They don't have any cost excuses for including backup cameras, camera sensors and display screens are literally cheaper than dirt.

[pornel]

Legacy automakers still use these for upselling trims.

It's so silly when they make some "Advanced Technology Package" with a VGA camera and a 2-inches-bigger infotainment screen that's still worse than junk from Aliexpress, and charge $3000 extra for it.

I know it's just a profit-maximizing market segmentation, but I like to imagine their Nokia-loving CEO has just seen an iPad for the first time.

[dylan604]

That's great for cars built before the regulation were put into place. Without that regulation, you'd then be dependent on the end user purchasing an after market part and installing it. The vast majority of them won't. So if it is so important to have, you make it part of the car. They did not leave seat belts up to the owners to install after market versions.

[Dylan16807]

Was it ever a problem to get the kind of phone SoC or camera chips you'd need for a backup camera if you were willing to pay an extra $20? I thought the issue was more specialized things. And you need one gigabyte of ram or less.

[spease]

A gigabyte!?

You shouldn’t need any dedicated RAM. A decent microcontroller should be able to handle transcoding the output from the camera to the display and provide infotainment software that talks to the CANbus or Ethernet.

And the bare minimum is probably just a camera and a display.

Even buffering a full HD frame would only require a few megabytes.

Pretty sure the law doesn’t require an electron app running a VLM (yet) that would justify anything approaching gigabytes of RAM.

[nobody_r_knows]

As someone who can only afford cars that are 10+ years old, i've never owened a car with a backup camera. And in a way-- good. That part of my brain, let it continue to develop. I am much better at "feeling out" where a car is than my friends who rely on back up cameras.

[turtlebits]

Sure, and you may as well walk around with a blindfold on to develop your "spidey" senses too.

[mosburger]

I understand your skepticism 100%, but I suspect you might change your mind if you, say, rented a car with it for a week. It's definitely a net positive for safety, and it probably costs the auto maker less than the seat belts (literally).

[anticorporate]

I've owned cars with backup cameras since about 2014. I still mostly back up the old fashioned way, and really only use the camera for very tight situations where a few inches matter.

[tsegratis]

ive owned two cars. the modern backup camera means the new one has small "stylish...." rear windows. it is wayyyy more dangerous than the older one with no sensors

i only have those two data points; but give me an older car with larger windows every. single. time.

[skhr0680]

Being good at driving doesn’t fix the huge blind spot you have behind your car

[commakozzi]

unless you're Yoda or Luke Skywalker, you're not "feeling" a 4-year old walking behind you in your blind spot.

[DerArzt]

If they are feeling it, the worst scenario has happened.

[jabroni_salad]

I used to be ornery about this but having a camera mounted on the back of the trunk that can see all the way down both ways of the aisle is actually a huge boon when backing out of a spot. Especially if I am parked next to something that is taller than my golf, which is most vehicles.

[doubled112]

This is what changed my mind too. I was firmly in the “can’t you just learn to drive?” camp before.

I can use my eyes and look around but I can’t see through objects.

The camera and sensors have an incredibly wide view. I only have to get my rear end out a few inches to be able to see everything I couldn’t before. Pray and pull out isn’t very safe.

[StopDisinfo910]

Backup camera are insanely nice. Modern cars give you things that even great awareness won't give you. The bird's eye view you get with multiple cameras is sheer magic.

[badc0ffee]

It's not just ginormous SUVs with this problem, though, right? You're not going to see a 18 month old out the back window of your compact hatchback if they're too close to your car. Especially now that windows seem to be tinier than they used to.

[Aurornis]

No, it's common to all vehicles. You can't see small children behind a small passenger car, either.

Blaming trucks and SUVs for everything is a favorite pasttime of internet comments, but all vehicles benefit from backup cameras and collision detection sensors.

[nsbk]

The US averages 23 pedestrian deaths per million people per year. The EU averages 8. The US fatalities have increased by 50% since 2013, while in the EU have decreased by 25% in the same time frame.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/74/wr/mm7408a2.htm

[Aurornis]

What does this have to do with the comment you're replying to?

The US was ahead of the EU in requiring backup cameras on new vehicles.

The majority of pedestrian accidents aren't involved with backup cameras.

Are you just trying to turn this into a US vs EU argument?

[testdelacc1]

What’s really crazy was Trump forcing the UK to change road safety rules so they could sell more American pick up trucks in the UK.

So pedestrian deaths would start rising again.

[drnick1]

> The US averages 23 pedestrian deaths per million people per year. The EU averages 8.

Americans drive significantly more miles per year, and larger/more comfortable cars are in part needed because Americans spend far more time in their cars than Europeans.

Euro governments are also increasingly anti-car, which means citizens are loosing their freedom to travel as they wish and unreasonably taxed, policed, and treated like cash cows for the "privilege" of driving.

[ikr678]

Collision detection sensors do the job just fine without a screen though.

I have a 2016 vehicle with no console screen and they have saved me from hitting all sorts on things, and are sensitive enough to detect minor obstacles like long grass.

[londons_explore]

I think the difference is that a 3 year old barely-walking child tends to wander behind moving cars far less often than an 8 year old playing football.

[kube-system]

1-4 year olds are the age group most likely to be injured in this type of incident.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5406a2.htm

I suspect older children are more likely to be able to be aware of their surroundings and have better gross motor skills to react.

[discreteevent]

That could be true but the 8 year old gets out of the way. I can remember two incidents on the news where a toddler was killed in a driveway. Tragic.

[stetrain]

Right, backup cameras make sense even for sedans and other small cars. The high-hood trucks and SUVs in the US are the reason we'll probably get mandatory front cameras eventually as well.

[Zigurd]

It's a little ironic that the truck that diverged from the trend for high butch looking hood lines for no real reason is... Cybertruck. We kill pedestrians in the name of macho.

[XorNot]

The front camera is the best thing I added to my 2004 Prius. The hood on that car is very good for visibility, but with the birds eye cameras I can roll it up within centimeters of things in front of me (there's a slight risk that you can absolutely poke the nose under stuff but at that point it's quite obvious out the windshield too).

[globular-toast]

Why are infants materialising out of nowhere behind cars? There must be something else going on here.

When I reverse, there can't possibly be something behind my car, because I've just driven forwards over that area. When I begin to reverse, I'm looking all around behind and I'll be able to see if an infant, or dog or whatever, runs into the path I intend to take.

A lot of people tend to drive forwards into parking spaces then reverse out. I've no idea why, because it's far easier to reverse in then drive forwards out. And I reckon much safer too. If people are sitting in their cars for extended periods then beginning to drive in reverse, I can see this being a problem. But there are also vehicles that you wouldn't be able to see an infant in front of the car either.

[chrisco255]

This has nothing to do with SUVs. A 3 year old is difficult to see behind ANY vehicle.

[torginus]

Personally I don't own a huge SUV, but I feel backup cameras are a godsend. You're so much better off looking from the point of the actual back of the car to judge the distance to the car parked behind you.

The perk of not having to twist your body around while steerins is also pretty nice.

[seattle_spring]

Someone in another thread unironically called a midsized SUV a "matchbox". The vehicle in question has a size comparable to a Toyota 4Runner.

Was a great example of the ridiculous expectations some of us Americans have on ridiculously huge vehicles.

[globular-toast]

You can give people more. You cannot give people less.

That's it. That's all our problems.

[fnord77]

deaths from people backing up over their kids predated "ginormous SUVs".

[rkapsoro]

Wait until you hear what kind of vehicles the CAFE regulatory framework has incentivized US automakers to build.

[bluejekyll]

This is ultimately the thing that needs to be fixed. The exemption for small trucks was stupid, and it should have been reserved for literal farm equipment (as that was intended). The fact that SUVs slip by on this now has created such a dumb market.

[derektank]

The OBBB Act passed by Congress last year eliminated the financial penalties associated with violations of CAFE standards, so there’s presumably no reason why automakers have to abide by them anymore, except possibly for concerns about future legislation.

[next_xibalba]

It wouldn’t be HN without a commenter shoehorning the topic of a thread into proof of their pet problem. See also any topic even remotely tangential to city planning.

[Aurornis]

> In the US, no. Backup cameras are required by federal law as of 2018.

Backup cameras are required for new vehicles in a lot of markets: EU, Canada, Japan, and more.

So it's not just a US requirement.

[LeifCarrotson]

The Slate truck has a small backup camera integrated into the gauge cluster, and many vendors implement it in the rearview mirror itself.

It doesn't need to be a giant infotainment display.

[Fwirt]

Backup cameras do contribute significantly to safety, to the point that I installed one in my 2002 vehicle with a cheap aftermarket head unit. The important thing to realize is that all the modern conveniences can be decoupled from the drivetrain. My $50 Android head unit does basically all the things that the OEM head unit on our 2018 vehicle does. It even does many things better.

The problem with modern cars is that everything is so heavily integrated and proprietary. If I swapped out the OEM touchscreen, apparently I would also lose the ability to set the clock on my instrument cluster. Now that this has become normalized, automakers have realized they can lock Android Auto/CarPlay behind a paywall and you’ll have no recourse but to buy one of those tablets that you stick on your dashboard and plug into the aux port. If your car still has an aux port.

I’m excited for the Slate, but unfortunately I have the feeling that the people who buy new cars aren’t the same people that want the Slate. The rest of us who keep our 20+ year old vehicles reliably plugging along don’t make any money for automakers.

[alt227]

> buy one of those tablets that you stick on your dashboard and plug into the aux port

Every single car I have been in in the last 5 years or so has Bluetooth. No need for aux ports in this day and age, especially when devices dont have headphone jacks anymore.

Are you stuck in the 2000's?

[AngryData]

I still use headphone jacks on my phone, I wouldn't buy one without it. It is just more garbage to manage and more stuff to fix when it doesn't work. It takes half a second to plug in a cable and I don't gotta run around broadcasting a bluetooth signal which drains battery when not in use and takes as long to disable as pulling out a plug. Plus it is often lower quality than the cord.

Bluetoothing to your car is to me the same energy as using "wireless" charging stands for your phone. You are just replacing a physical tether with a less efficient digital tether of higher complexity for no actual gains.

[ikr678]

I thought the same until my latest pixel refused to use the headphone jack to the car because it detected the hands free communications in the steering wheel as a microphone and decided to block audio out with notifications telling me to set up Google Voice Assistant first (get fucked).

[DANmode]

GrapheneOS.org

[silon42]

On this site I read about Bluetooth security problems and then turn it off for a few months...

I've now seen that Android has an option to turn on Bluetooth every day... I turned it off.

[unethical_ban]

Ford has the backup camera integrated with the mirror. So it is possible to have a dumb simple display vs an infotainment system.

[ProAm]

> The intent of the law was to reduce the number of children killed by being backed over because the driver couldn't see them behind the car.

Wish they would do that for all the trucks with 5ft high hoods with no cameras.

[HiPhish]

Backup cameras are great for people who wear glasses. My visual cone is narrower, so I effectively have to turn my head 180° to see accurately enough, otherwise it's just a blur.

[ludicrousdispla]

I find audible proximity sensors to be far more useful, as I can freely look around the vehicle while listening for the closest contact point.

[tom_m]

Woah, really? I didn't know backup cameras were legally required now. Or have been. That's awesome.

[725686]

Cameras are required, but not displays :~)

[richardlblair]

Yet everyone drives a truck and are incapable of seeing a child infront of their vehicle.

[danudey]

When I'm 5'11" and I often see trucks and SUVs whose hoods come nearly to my shoulder, it just boggles my mind. Of all the regulations around vehicles, I don't understand why "being able to see the road five feet in front of the vehicle" isn't one of them.

[vineyardmike]

Because trucks are extremely popular, and frankly there is a cultural identity associated with them. Most people don't haul things with their truck, and if they do, it's very infrequently. BUT in American fashion, the optionality to do this partially drives purchasing decisions.

[wussboy]

But that identity was crafted by marketing. It could just as easily craft another identity if required.

[AngryData]

Because marketting doesn't really care about vehicle safety, they care about how cool and powerful it looks so they can sell it for a higher price.

[numpad0]

JPY2690k($17,594) 2025 Honda `N-ONE e:`[0], 12km(7.45 mi), unregistered, 4 passengers, 29.6kWh battery, WLTP 295km(183 mi) of range, pack liquid cooling, has one-pedal, airbags, basic LKAS, rear seat ISOFIX, etc etc[2]

It's like, at least one exists in Japan, on used market even, if you absolutely have to have one, I guess

0: https://www.honda.co.jp/N-ONE-e/webcatalog/design/images/e_g...

1: https://driver-web.jp/articles/gallery/41396/36291

2: https://www.carsensor.net/usedcar/detail/AU6687733258/index.... | https://archive.is/gbBzc

[wasmainiac]

Hahah super, ugly I love it. If only it was easy to import.

[oritron]

Ah sorry, I quickly edited that out of my comment! I had the video playing while posting, they were talking about a precursor project for embedded Flutter which this in some ways builds on, /that/ is running on the new RAV4.

One of the example uses given in the talk is 3D tutorials, which I could imagine being handy. Not sure I'd want to click on the car parts for it but with the correct affordances I could imagine a potentially useful interface.

[ashleyn]

I feel like "game engine" is a misnomer for what we're actually dealing with here. It's more like an "ECS-based scene rendering engine, which can be used for games or for advanced UI". But that doesn't have a succinct label yet.

[munificent]

I think "game engine" is a pretty succinct label for that. :)

[Brian_K_White]

We're all just waiting for the Slate for exactly that reason.

[mcny]

I was hoping it would be under USD 20k including all taxes but now rumors say likely NOT under USD 25k?

[Moto7451]

A Toyota Corolla starts at $23K. I think the "Under 20" and "Under 30" price points (a la the original Model 3 goal) are simply a thing of the past for any volume car with reasonable demand.

[mrguyorama]

What you get for that $23k is now quite substantial though.

Power windows are standard. 169hp. Automatic climate control, central locking and key fobs, Automatic emergency braking and other radar based features. Digital gauge cluster. Modern infotainment. Modern crash safety, which is really good compared to 20 years ago.

That's a lot of car for $10k in 1996 dollars.

That's ignoring the $3k in fees, taxes, and whatever scam the dealer runs.

The reason we don't see more of it is that selling one $23k Corolla to one value minded shopper can't make line go up as much as selling one $60k MEGATRUCK to one easily influenced shopper. The new car market is exclusively for people who buy new cars regularly, and are therefore willing to get very bad deals for cars. The market is driven by people who self select for bad ability to parse value.

[Moto7451]

Yup. The expectations are set higher and to a point since cars are bigger for safety reasons (crumple zones, airbags) and have more pedestrian safety features like spring loaded hoods, it invited incremental additions until the new price points were set. A spartan 19K car isn’t going to sell as well as a CarPlay equipped 23K car.

[mrguyorama]

No, it's better than that. Inflation adjusted, this $23k corolla costs less than a base model 1995 Corolla. That one had an MSRP around $12k

There has been real price decrease in small cars!

[fwip]

The announced "under $20K" price was including the now-cancelled $7,500 EV subsidy.

[bradchris]

That was based on the $7.5k EV subsidy. California will still give you $2.5k, though, so just over $20k.

Crazy to think had the federal subsidy not been cut, that car would be possible to get for around $15k. Unheard of.

[ghostly_s]

well the website says "mid-twenties" so Id say more than a rumor.

[ErroneousBosh]

> Can I just have an electric car that’s a car and nothing else? Seats, wheels pedals, mirrors, real buttons, no displays just a aux jack. I’d buy it, hell I might even take the risk and pre-order it

You can buy a tubular frame chassis for Beetle-based kit cars from a factory in the south of England, that's been adapted to take modern coilover suspension and an MGF or MGTF engine and gearbox, because Beetles are so rare that anyone wants to put the engine back into a Beetle.

I reckon with a minor amount of fettling you could squeeze a Nissan Leaf transaxle and a sufficient amount of batteries in, and still drop your Manx beach buggy shell over the top. Or any other shell you like.

You'd be running around in a solar-powered beach buggy. THAT is the future.

[stetrain]

Part of what has made modern EVs successful in the wider market is the connected navigation system that knows your battery level, current consumption, planned navigation route, and what charging stations are available along the way.

To have a decent travel experience in an EV you'd likely at least need this data ported out to your phone via an OBD adapter or CarPlay / Android Auto integration with an in-car infotainment display.

[dylan604]

Connecting via ODB? Come on. The car does not need any of that built into it. You can connect an app on your phone to handle all of that and just use the screen as a display. There is no need for a car to have a cellular connection just to give this functionality. That would also prevent the car from being able to communicate with the mother ship. If there's an update, have the app do that as well.

[stetrain]

The point is that for your phone to provide accurate routing, it needs data from the car. Preferably live updating data.

Today this is done via an OBD Bluetooth adapter or via CarPlay/Android Auto APIs that allow the phone to get data from the car.

[dylan604]

Funny, my phone can provide accurate routing data with out the car. What data from the car does the phone need to be able to accurately route? I'm at my desk no where near my car and it is working just fine

[stetrain]

Current battery level and consumption, so that it can tell you whether you will make it to your destination with adequate charge left or insert charging stops where needed.

[itintheory]

> ODB

Ol' Dirty Bastard? I jest, but I think the theory behind wanting an 'On-board Diagnostics' [1] connection would be to get data from the vehicle. You can get cheap bluetooth OBD-II adapters to transmit that info to your phone, it's not a given. I don't know much about electric cars, but if you want your phone to know the fuel level in an ICE vehicle then you'd need this kind of connection.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics

[dylan604]

I make typos like that lot. The one that is most common for me is CVS instead of CSV. No, this isn't a list of things to get from the drug store ::facepalm::

[m0llusk]

> Funny how “game engines” are now car parts in 2026.

Seems almost inevitable. Game engines end up supporting user interface elements and text with translations, but with an emphasis on simplicity, performance, and robustness. Many currently trending user interface stacks readily generate bursts of complexity, have poor performance even with simple usage, and are buggy and crash prone.

[parpfish]

But once they replace gas engine with electric motor, car has NO engine. Gotta slip in a game engine.

[Apocryphon]

I believe Tesla use/d Godot in their automative entertainment-instrumentation system.

[oceansky]

"Nice car. What kind of engine does it have?"

"V8"

"Which kind of V8?"

[osullivj]

Flat plane or cross plane? Cross plane cranks necessitate an asymmetric firing order, which produces the wonderful burble from US V8s. Flat plane is more common in Europe - think Ferrari - and has a symmetric firing order that produces a toneless metallic howl.

[oceansky]

I was talking about the Chrome kind of v8.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_(JavaScript_engine)

[PlatoIsADisease]

Real buttons are more expensive than electronic. Not sure if you care, but people make that mistake more generally.

Game engines are probably trivially cheap to produce in 2026. You forget that Toyota sells 10M cars per year. In 3 years thats 30M cars. What does it cost each buyer for the game engine? 30 cents?

[dsr_]

I can buy a 104 key mechanical keyboard for under $75 retail. That's 104 switches, 104 labelled button caps, a circuit board, controller and USB interface, with reliability likely much better than any other moving part found on an automobile.

[PlatoIsADisease]

That is very factually wrong. The reliability will be worse. That $75 keyboard is going to be used be hundreds of thousands of people, not millions. There is no safety involved. No one is testing to see how sunscreen and 50 other liquids interact with it. Dump a sugary drink on your car buttons, they will still work. Do that on your keyboard and it wont.

[conductr]

This only makes sense if touchscreens are reliable. They are not. You should look at the fault rates. Cheaper isn't better. In any case, we had cheap and good analogue before so let's not pretend like it's not possible. It might have been more expensive than a keyboard, but it wasn't dramatically different or we would have never had it. They just found a way to 1) reduce cost by going digital and 2) charging a premium for going digital as it was perceived as an upgrade by a majority of the market. They sold it to us, it's what they're good at. It doesn't mean it was a good idea.

[mikeryan]

Unity has a whole template and asset library for creating car displays.

https://unity.com/blog/industry/automotive-hmi-template-take...

[nineteen999]

And Unreal goes a whole lot further than that:

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/uses/automotive

[criddell]

> Real buttons are more expensive than electronic.

It might add up to a lot of money for the manufacturer who is cranking out thousands or millions of vehicles, but to the consumer buying one car it isn't a meaningful difference.

[PlatoIsADisease]

This is 10 year old outdated, but 10 years ago 1 button was ~1.00. Probably closer to $1.20 or $1.30. But sometimes buttons had 2 buttons on them, Those would go for $2.10-$2.30.

Then you had wiring each button wire I believe was $1. This wasnt 1 wire, but a few wires, power, ground, signal. Each button had them. This wasnt my job, so I didn't follow this price too much, but I asked the question at the time. I think going into the ECU, there is also a cost associated with it.

Anyway, you could assume 10 years ago, each button was $2. A car has 40-70 buttons? So its probably like $100 a car. Maybe $150 or $200 in today's money.

Also buttons and wires break, causing warranty problems.

At the time these vehicles were selling for under $20k at the bottom, and $40k at the top. So 1% of costs were buttons.

This doesn't even include the cost of hiring ~20 engineers to handle the buttons. ~6 people to check appearance and do testing... It doesn't include the assembly costs on the line. That 1% was just the cost of button + wire.

[danudey]

> Also buttons and wires break, causing warranty problems.

It's a good thing that doesn't happen to giant 15" integrated touchscreens. Imagine how much of a problem that would be!

[Dylan16807]

> This doesn't even include the cost of hiring ~20 engineers to handle the buttons. ~6 people to check appearance and do testing... It doesn't include the assembly costs on the line. That 1% was just the cost of button + wire.

That doesn't make sense. $1 uninstalled might make sense for a fancy custom-molded button, even if it's too much for a generic button. (I'd rather have some generic buttons with labels than use a touchscreen, by the way.) But there's no way a few feet of signal wire and the proportional share of power wires get anywhere near $1 uninstalled.

Also I can find entire car stereo units with 15 buttons on them for $15? That kind of integrated button is cheap, has been common in cars for a long time, and can control things indirectly like a touch screen button if that's cheaper than direct wiring.

[PlatoIsADisease]

You are underestimating the quality you are getting with a car. The light colors match perfectly with science and experts. Its wild how much effort goes into it.

Your after market has not been tested to react with sunscreen.

[Dylan16807]

But the whole argument was that it's too expensive. If impeccable color matching is too expensive then give me the cheapest button that won't break. Needing the touchscreen to adjust the A/C is more ugly than the worst looking button.

But also that kind of button doesn't need dedicated wires.

[ErroneousBosh]

> Anyway, you could assume 10 years ago, each button was $2. A car has 40-70 buttons? So its probably like $100 a car. Maybe $150 or $200 in today's money.

I have a late 90s Range Rover. It has about 12 buttons on the dashboard, most of which I never have to bother with (they do things that turn on and off the fog lamps, which I don't need to use, or adjust the air suspension, which I rarely need to use). I turn the lights off and on, and I switch the heating from "normal" to "BLAST EVERYTHING ON, FRONT AND REAR DEMIST ON, SEAT HEATERS ON, EVERYTHING ON, EVERYTHING ON, EVERYTHING UP FULL, WE'RE AN AIR FRYER NOW" mode.

What do you actually need an LCD for in a car?

[criddell]

> What do you actually need an LCD for in a car?

Backup camera. They are required by law.

[nottorp]

It doesn't have to be a LCD. Why not a CRT :)

[ErroneousBosh]

I don't use that. It's silly and distracting.

[fwip]

From looking at some new car options lately, it seems like you're lucky if you can get floor mats for $200. This doesn't take away from your point - I suppose I'm just griping.

[wasmainiac]

I don’t care. I want a simple car with simple parts that I can fix. Not this spaceship that we get now days. The 12v battery on my partners car had to be replaced, apparently it had to be “paired” in the shop and was not user serviceable wtf!?

[moring]

The "pairing" probably makes sense if you deep-dive into the technical details. My guess is that the battery has software on it to improve performance, total life, whatever.

The real problem is that the whole is not designed to be user-servicable.

[michaelbuckbee]

Kinda sorta the Slate truck - https://www.slate.auto/en

Their pitch is to ship a pretty minimal platform that you can customize up as you want it.

[dotancohen]

The last car that I remember being just an engine and seats was the Dodge Viper. I think some K class Japanese domestic vehicles are also likewise basic.

I loved the Viper, but its spartan interior and features list were its detriment.

[x0x0]

That car is the Slate truck.

[speedgoose]

It’s a very small market, but yes you can. In Europe, the Citroen Ami is about that. Or the base Dacia Spring.

More expensive cars will have more electronic. They kinda want to sell them.

[jonshariat]

Slate auto is doing exactly that. They have pre-orders too. I'm waiting until I can test drive but it looks really interesting.

[m463]

> a car and nothing else

sounds like slate:

https://www.slate.auto/en

[scubadude]

It's flipped, so you now get a little petrol 4 stroke engine powering the game console in your electric car.

[gentleman11]

The dream. Although a map display would be nice to keep us from needing to fiddle with our phones. And backup camera

[nelsonic]

You’re describing the Slate truck. Really hope they deliver what they’ve promised.

[aylmao]

First we got cars in game engines, and now we get game engines in cars too.

[xnx]

Cars should be a USB-C peripheral to a tablet that docks on the dash.

[danudey]

Given how many cars have Carplay or Android Auto, but also have their own e.g. Toyota app that you need to/ought to install, it feels as though this isn't that far off from how things basically are.

Personally, I'd be happy with some kind of situation where:

1. You have a small in-dash touchscreen, as most small sedans have these days, as the basic level of "backup camera and radio view" 2. Everything the car does has a physical button so you don't NEED to use the touchscreen 3. The car has a USB-C port that can power a tablet and which provides a standardized interface that e.g. iOS and Android can interface with, so that users don't have to worry about their new OS doesn't support the not-updated app, or the app doesn't support their not-updated device 4. Sell an optional tablet mount that attaches to the dash the way a built-in one would be 5. Sell an optional 'tablet' that does nothing but interface with the USB-C port and provide what it needs, in case someone wants a larger screen without having to buy an iPad Pro

Then again I don't drive, so I'd be happy with none of this also.

[giancarlostoro]

Honestly, I'd be okay with this, and then you can upgrade / replace said tablet if you wanted to. In an Alternate Universe, your iPad drives your car, your iPad Pro drives your car through hell and back, or whatever.

[dgently7]

do you know about the slate truck? give it a search. it doesn't even come with speakers. or electric windows. or paint. it does have a backup camera afaik.

[AngryData]

No because more basic cars have much lower profit margins while requiring higher volume and investors/capitalists will not accept that. Why earn 5% on their investment selling a million cars and building brand name when they can instead earn 20% on selling 100,000 cars at the expense of a brand name they never cared about maintaining in the first place? Brand tarnishment is something other smucks will have to deal with down the road, not the guys making these decisions right now who get performance "bonuses" and not the shareholders that want large returns.

[binkHN]

Rivian uses the Unreal engine.

[Kapura]

dawg idk how you have a car that's "electric" and also "basic." everything in an electric car is _necessarily_ mediated by software. if you want a simple car, you want combustion.

[hamdingers]

Basic does not mean "no software" it means "no cellular modem" and "no 15 inch tablet" and "no subscription based features"

There is functionally no difference between the powertrain of an electric road car and a brushless drill. How much software is there in your brushless drill? More than zero, far less than an electric road car.

[renewiltord]

I can build you this for $140k, I think. Interested?

[leecommamichael]

The "interactive user manual" sounds neat. It probably doesn't need to be part of the car's computer.

[cwillu]

Dear god do I not want to be trying to deal with an interactive user manual when pulled over on the side of the road trying to look up the lift point to jack the car up.