[loehnsberg]

Isn't it sad that we now have Russian, Chinese, American, European, etc alternatives? I mean I get it, Sept 11 paved the way for FISA orders and NSA overreach, Russia and China reverted back into dictatorship, but Europe is also at the edge. Shouldn't we rather fight that nationalistic power grab that just makes us all poorer and less free? And instead propagate global alternatives that are not subjected by some power-hungry state-/capital-sponsored overlord?

[BenoitEssiambre]

It is a sad reality. The US has recently threatened to annex Denmark and Canada. Some of us are suddenly keenly aware that the US is in a position to take control of most of our computers and phones via software updates.

Open source is the global alternative you're looking for. There's even interesting hardware options like https://starlabs.systems/

The US also has had an unfair advantage in tech/defense and finance because it hosted the global hubs of the free world. This attracted eye-watering amounts of money to places like SF and NY. With this newfound isolationism, tariffs etc. reducing the viability of hosting the global hubs, there's massive opportunities opening in europe and elsewhere.

[madwolf]

What are global alternatives? Every company is connected to some country, there are no global alternatives. I live in EU and want to use EU services mainly because I want this part of the world to prosper. I want to leave my money and incentivise innovation in this part of the world because this is where I live and I want a better life here for me and my kids. And alternatives are always good, especially that they’re not closed. People in the US can use services from EU companies as well :) why not?

[kromokromo]

Theoretically possible in a distributed way, though usually inefficient. IPFS is a good example.

[whilenot-dev]

> Isn't it sad that we now have Russian, Chinese, American, European, etc alternatives? [...] Shouldn't we rather fight that nationalistic power grab [...]

While I agree with your sentiment, European and nationalistic are two contradicting positions, unlike the other three mentioned superpowers.

[ivan_gammel]

Not really. The forging pan-European nation composed of many nationalities is a thing in all meaningful contexts. European civilization, European economy, European products, European voters etc.

[whilenot-dev]

Not really, no. Europe is neither a sovereign state nor a single political entity. It's a continent composed of many individual nations with a versatile history.

I mean sure, your example shows that the virtue of being "European" represents a certain demographic and a sovereign territory. Again, it's a continent, so what?

[lmf4lol]

yet

[whilenot-dev]

Probably never... European nations rather seem to enjoy forming Unions, Agreements and Organizations.

[lava_pidgeon]

What is nation is not a objective question. People can define Europe as nation and then you can have an nationalistic Europe.

[kergonath]

> People can define Europe as nation and then you can have a nationalistic Europe.

Right, it they do not. You’d have to stretch the definition of nation beyond its breaking point for Europe to be a nation. It would include Russia and Ukraine, Finland and Greece, none of these nations have much in common.

[psychoslave]

That’s just as meaningful in the context as saying that humanity is a nation for some definition of the term.

Europe is many things, but probably a poor base to push any nationalistic aspiration.

[hermanzegerman]

Nobody inside Europe would define Europe as a Nation

[NoboruWataya]

This might be possible for software, if we assume that being open source can protect software from state or corporate control (doubtful to be honest). For other things I don't really see how it would work. Your hardware has to be manufactured somewhere, your infrastructure has to be located somewhere.

It is not "nationalistic" to prefer things that are made in Europe. Europe is not a nation and very few people feel anything close to national pride about it. I like that we have European alternatives instead of German, French, Swedish, etc, alternatives.

[oytis]

First of all, US is at the edge of a dictatorship. If US falls completely, Europe will likely too, but untangling ourselves from US is an attempt to prevent that.

[ungovernableCat]

European leaders fundamentally have no issue with Americans dominating tech and were happy to have their entire digital infrastructures rely on US companies. If the Trump admin could give them some sort of nod behind the scenes that all of this is just a big show and they're not actually going to break NATO or invade or w/e insane shit they're saying I guarantee you a sizeable amount would just say hey no worries then let's keep the status quo going.

But that's not what's happening. It's a clear and obvious security risk to their sovereignty. If the government can't guarantee that to its citizens then what even is its purpose? The Trump admin has already tried to use American tech dominance as leverage.

Ask yourself this question, what if there was a foreign tech competitor that managed to scale up to be basically a better cheaper AWS. Would the US government ever allow it to encroach its market to the point that AWS or Azure did in Europe? Look at what happened to tiktok if you want to see what approach they'd likely take.

So how exactly would you envision an objective and neutral provider in a world of geopolitical competition?

[tpoacher]

No,not sad, centralisation is always problematic even if well meaning. The presence of diverse alternatives is a feature, not a bug.

As long as they're actual alternatives of course, rather than just another monopoly but at a smaller scale.

[thatguy0900]

I think the opposite as you. These global companies often act as a nation with laws unto themselves. Most of them don't actually have real support that can do anything unless you make a lucky Twitter post or something. Having a local company that is realistically beholden to local laws and local politicians that you can actually potentially go and talk to if needed is a major feature.

[direwolf20]

The European alternatives are not restricted to Europe.

[carlosjobim]

Qwant seems to be.

[toyg]

> Sept 11 paved the way for FISA orders and NSA overreach

It's not even that. We euros were more than willing to look the other way (see the umpteen attempts to reconcile our privacy-friendly legislation with the free-for-all of American services, ongoing for decades) in the name of convenience and fundamentally shared values. The turning point was really in 2024/2025, when those shared values were summarily swept away on the other side of the Atlantic.

Besides, the "global alternatives not subjected to power-hungry overlords" are actually very much subjected to the worst of humanity, and wide open to exploitation from such overlords.

[tucnak]

> Besides, the "global alternatives not subjected to power-hungry overlords" are actually very much subjected to the worst of humanity, and wide open to exploitation from such overlords.

This is, in fact, what "overlord" means!

[AndroTux]

Competition is always good. It's sad that there's been so little alternatives in the past. I'm glad that this is now slowly changing.

What we should work towards, though, is interoperability and open source solutions.

[kergonath]

> Shouldn't we rather fight that nationalistic power grab that just makes us all poorer and less free?

We should not; we must. But at the same time we need to recognise that we are powerless to affect the American government, which can go rogue at any moment. So from a pure risk analysis, we also need to have local alternatives. I regret this state of affairs, but it is an unavoidable consequence of the US threatening its nominal allies.

[Archelaos]

Nothing against global standards and similar. But even "global alternatives" are usually rooted somewhere locally, and that starts to matter more and more, it seems.

[nolok]

I'm really not sad about having alternative and choices, especially it also leads to reduce corporate overlordship.