[embedding-shape]

> What kind of stuff is missing?

I'm in the market for buying a new car, either EV or hybrid. Currently have a Audi, been looking at various BYD models, particularly the new Touring one.

One important feature, that I didn't know I needed before I tried it, was in-seat AC, where the air from the AC hits the back and bottom, instead of just your arms and face. Living in a warm country, and spending most of the time in the car during the summer, this feature is something I really want now.

Heading to Audi and asking what the cheapest model available with that feature? Around 70K EUR. Doing the same but going to BYD: 35K EUR. And that's just considering that single feature, the same happens for almost everything. Want a HUD in the windshield? Audi adds 5K to the price, with BYD it's in the middle variants and up.

Basically, you get the same amount of "features" for half the price, and it's hard to just say "Well, I'm a fan of Audi so that's worth the markup". Still, there are many decisions that go into purchasing a car, not just the features, but I think that explains why you see that argument come up, because they do offer more features for cheaper than at least what the European car makers do.

[jeroenhd]

I think this is one place where European automakers are going to have to adapt or die out. Even if they can get the motors, batteries, and charging systems to a competitive level, Chinese manufacturers include most """luxury""" features by default. European manufacturers go the other way, including the hardware but locking the entire thing behind microtransactions or "upgrades".

They're going to need to cover the losses they're compensating for with the ridiculous upgrade prices somehow or they're going to lose even more customers. The import tariffs raised to protect the European market from affordable Chinese cars aren't going to work forever.

[vultour]

This is mostly an issue with German cars. A lower-end Skoda comes standard with features that would cost half the car's price if optioned on a Mercedes.

[jeroenhd]

Still, browsing the Skoda website, I see Skoda offering lane assist for 450 to 750 euros (one is a "plus" version for some reason), a "headlight assist" for 990 euros, and CarPlay/Android Auto support for 450 euros. 250 euros for heated seats, 350 for adding a phone charging port, 800 euros for satnav, 150 euros for a plastic tray between the seats. That is, of course, after selecting one of six "editions" of the same model that all come with different extras for a markup of several thousand.

The equivalent BYD comes with all of that included for free in the cheapest SKU. The biggest differentiator is that the heated seats are only available in BYD's most luxury version of the car, but the most luxury option is still 22% cheaper than the Skoda with equivalent options. BYD does charge more for a lick of paint, to be fair, so if you're looking for a specific colour you may pay a little more.

Perhaps BMW and Mercedes are worse at this, but the 150 euro plastic tray with cup holder says everything that needs to be said.

[neogodless]

This is an odd one to take so long to "become normal" in luxury cars.

Lincoln started doing this about 20 years ago. You can buy Chevrolet pickup trucks with this feature. Of course my Polestar 2 (Swedish but made in China) has ventilation.

Now some might do true AC, while many just do ventilation, but either way it adds a lot of comfort if you're in a very warm cabin (or, say, have a huge panoramic sunroof.)

[dzhiurgis]

> Doing the same but going to BYD: 35K EUR.

To add insult to injury - a good portion of it is tariff (which in itself is just countering CN government subsidy)

I'd be careful buying Chinese EV's purely due to sanction/markup depreciation, on top of already hard EV depreciation.