[weatherlight]

We have a really talented engineer on our team (in the US), who has a green card and everything. He's taking a job in Brussels, he said very plainly hes not sticking around to find out what happens next. I don't blame him.

[systemtest]

If you are able to make it work in Belgium it's a great move. Free education, free healthcare, 20 days PTO minimum, public transport, 15 weeks of maternity leave, labor protections, basically no crime, no guns, no weekly school shootings, total tax rate of at most 60%.

[ryandrake]

This person is leaving a regime where the physical safety and liberties of immigrants like him/her are in jeopardy, and HN starts a 50+ comment thread about high taxes. Peak commentary.

[mysterydip]

60% is a selling point? How high do they go elsewhere?

[jleyank]

When we lived in Cal decades ago, taxes weren't all that much lower. Federal taxes and state taxes (higher) on a larger salary, lots of social security and other fiddly little taxes and 100-200/check for 20% of my health insurance. The only good thing about social security is that while you pay a more the benefits are larger 62+. I'm trying to remember, but like 25% for the feds, 8-10% for the state, 6% for social security and the health insurance. Call it high 40's or so, maybe 50%? Yeah, sales tax was lower vs. vat but I thought Cal had about the highest sales tax in the states?

It all depends on what the aggregate deductions that are outside your control sum to, and what you get for the money.

[throw-the-towel]

Wow, you pay this much tax and probably don't even get national healthcare.

[rayiner]

If you make $200,000 as a single person in CA, you pay about 35% total of income in taxes. https://www.adp.com/resources/tools/calculators/salary-paych...

In Ontario, it would be about 38%, and that’d include healthcare. Canada is very efficient though. At least a decade ago, Canada’s non-defense spending per person was less than the US’s.

In Germany it would be about 44% total. Of course, in Germany, $200k is a top 2% income. In California it’s only a top 8% income.

[ifyoubuildit]

> you pay about 35% total of income in taxes.

That's what's directly taken out of your check right? But how much more do you pay after that in other taxes? And if you go even further, how much higher are the prices of everything that you purchase due to the various taxes involved in their production?

[systemtest]

Does your Germany figure include healthcare and church tax? That could push it over 50%. Though church tax is optional and you can go private for healthcare.

[systemtest]

What I meant to say is that even if you have a very high income you will never pay more than 60% in total tax and social premiums.

On €100,000 a year you pay €57,512 in tax (58% tax). On €60,000 a year it's only €32,405 (54%).

See:

https://be.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=100000&from=year...

https://be.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=60000&from=year&...

[joe_mamba]

>even if you have a very high income you will never pay more than 60% in total tax and social premiums.

Are there EU countries where you pay more than 60% for you make the "no more than 60% tax" sound like such a good deal?

AFAIK 60% is pretty much the top end of income tax rates as far as EU goes.

[ncruces]

Yes. Apart from the countries which live off of foreign direct investment, taxes are generally pretty high.

Also, in many EU states, companies contribute to social security. In some this is indexed to profits, but on others this is indexed directly to wages, so if you count that bit, taxes directly attributable to your income can easily exceed 60% of what a company pays out.

I don't know if Belgium is using that loophole when counting the 60%, though.

[joe_mamba]

>Apart from the countries which live off of foreign direct investment, taxes are generally pretty high.

I have no idea about this. Can you explain what you mean and give some examples of such countries ?

>Also, in many EU states, companies contribute to social security. In some this is indexed to profits, but on others this is indexed into wages, so if you count that bit, taxes directly attributable to your income can easily exceed 60% of what a company pays out.

True. Some EU countries also tax the gross salary the employer has to give you before it gets to you, which is in bad faith not included in payslips. So when you negotiate your 60k gross wage, it's actually costing your employer something like 72k Euros. I hate this shady practice.

[mywittyname]

Civilization is expensive.

If an American factored in the totality of their tax burden, it would be pretty high. The USA has the benefit of higher incomes and a gigantic population, so there's some economies of scale. But even so, add up all of income tax (federal, state, city, county), sales taxes, property taxes, tariffs, tolls, etc and the % is already pretty high. After factoring the cost of benefits that are free/subsidized in other countries, and the cost probably averages out to the same.

Of course, European countries can also have those same consumption taxes. But I'm not sure if OP factored that in.

[joe_mamba]

> sales taxes, property taxes, tariffs, tolls, etc and the % is already pretty high.

These taxes you mentioned (ignoring income taxes) are even higher in many EU countries than the US, especially sales tax. Same for tolls, tariffs, etc. they're all higher here and they're increasing them and adding new taxes on top, because EU coffers are being bled dry right now with the economy, trade wars, and actual wars going on.

Also, commodity products and services are generally more expensive here than in the US too. Like, I see on youtube the hobby stuff Americans do in their garage with home labs, electronic measuring equipment, power tools and stuff, all gotten nearly for free on craigslist, but if I want to replicate their setups it would cost way more here(from a smaller wage too), not to mention buying a house with a garage in Europe is very much of out of budget to most working class in Europe to begin with.

All this stuff being so cheap and readily available is probably why Americans in their garages have been so much more inventive and entrepreneurial than Europeans.

>After factoring the cost of benefits that are free/subsidized in other countries, and the cost probably averages out to the same.

True, but a lot of free stuff you get back from the government is sometimes of low quality compared to what you pay for in taxes on a high income, due to never being enough money for everything everyone needs, and not being able to attract and keep qualified and motivated workers to stay in the public system when they can earn more privately, and it's only been getting worse and worse since Covid and Ukraine, with no signs of improving.

For example, I am now paying ~1000 Euros for private physiotherapy after my accident, since the free government one is abysmal, which I am forced to pay for anyway out of my salary even though it's useless.

Another example, after my jaw surgery at the public hospital here they just strap cold packs to your face like in WW2, while in the US, my ex-boss who went through a similar procedure at a hospital there they had specialized head cooling devices for your post-op recovery, instead of medieval ice packs, while also being free of charge from his employer insurance. So you might pay more in the US for health insurance, but you also get more in return.

Overall I think I'd still prefer living here than in the US, but there's valid reasons why immigration to the US, and especially the success of immigrants there from an integration and financial perspective, is so high compared to here despite all the issues the US has.

[FpUser]

>"On €60,000 a year it's only €32,405 (54%)."

Is it possible to live middle class life on around 27K?

[systemtest]

In Brussels? Over half your net income would go to rent. If you are frugal then maybe you can get it to work out. This is not the type of income where you eat out every week.

[FpUser]

So at this level 60K leaves one at bare survival level. And what is a normal salary in there?

[Gud]

Frankly speaking that sounds awful

[jpalawaga]

providing healthcare and education are costs easily overlooked by most americans. But the reality is, these are costs borne by americans as well. and likely at a higher rate: americans pay more per capitia on both of those versus most other nations.

[phs318u]

The top marginal tax rate in 2024 (assessed 2025) was 50%. But that's not the total tax take - that's the marginal rate of tax for income above 48320 euro.

You can see the Belgian tax scale here:

https://fin.belgium.be/en/private-individuals/tax-return/inc...

[BanAntiVaxxers]

The maximum combined federal and California state income tax rate is approximately 51.3% for the highest earners in 2025

[duskdozer]

Marginal rate, of course

[weatherlight]

he's taking a 50% paycut going from the US to Brussels, but its more than what he will be making in his home country i guess.

[BrandoElFollito]

This is not easy to compare. When you take into account all the costs up to and after retirement this is another perspective. The cost of life is another factor.

And then of course quality of life, but that's very individual.

[archagon]

And world-class beer if you’re into that!

[rondaerth92]

Absolutely not. What a depressing country. Soulless people. Literally. Try Belgium in winter.

And today with the European white guilt it's full of Africans who hate not only their people , but European traditions and culture. This is the reality.

[garbawarb]

Especially if the salary is the same

[joe_mamba]

Do you know any companies in Belgium that pay US salaries?

[ponector]

The average salary for software developer in Chicago is $125k. Pretty much sure there are companies in Belgium paying US salaries!

[garbawarb]

No, do you?

[joe_mamba]

Why do you think I asked? I'd also move to Belgium for US salaries.

[kamaal]

>>he said very plainly hes not sticking around to find out what happens next.

Can't blame him, US residency really is a like a game of high attrition. Its your classic up or out scenario.

Some times even a passport doesn't guarantee a stay. Sooner or later, you fall ill, lose a home, have a divorce. Its a unique combination of extreme luck, work, health and many other factors several of which are totally outside of your control.

You either win spectacularly or exit trying.

[bradlys]

What country is he from?