[cyberax]

Sure. And Tesla doesn't have robotaxis at all, they're still playing in the kindergarten league.

So Tesla is in a weird state right now. Tesla's highway assist is shit, it's worse than Mercedes previous generation assist after Tesla switched to the end-to-end neural networks. The new MB.Drive Assist Pro is apparently even better.

FSD attempts to work in cities. But it's ridiculously bad, it's worse than useless even in simple city conditions. If I try to turn it on, it attempts to kill me at least once on my route from my office to my home. So other car makers quite sensibly avoided it, until they perfected the technology.

[dham]

> FSD attempts to work in cities. But it's ridiculously bad, it's worse than useless even in simple city conditions.

This isn't even close to being right.

[iknowstuff]

Girl get real. Mercedes fooled quite a few people with their PR stunt but they have NOTHING like fsd. Drive assist pro is vaporware, as their “L3” has been for the past 2 years. You can’t order that shit but half of hackernews is glazing mercedes for it

[dham]

Update, it is vaporware lol. Just announced today they are canceling it.

[cyberax]

Links?

The most recent one is: https://media.mbusa.com/releases/release-4889b1d1c66cddc7120...

[imtringued]

They canceled the Drive Pilot L3, which is fully autonomous with zero driver intervention (approved by the government), because the software isn't there yet due to the hand off problem. They are still working on making it work at 130km/h on the highways. The problem with a zero driver intervention system is that the driver isn't guaranteed to pay attention when the mode is no longer applicable and the mode switch is only obvious on the highway when exiting, but the L3 system doesn't support highway driving speeds yet.

I'm not talking about some Tesla style last second bullshit where you're supposed to compensate for the deficiencies of the system that supposedly can do the full journey. I mean a route like L2->L3->L2 where L2 is human supervised autonomous driving and L3 is autonomous driving with zero intervention. You can't tell people they're allowed to drink a coffee and then one minute later tell them to supervise the driving.

[dham]

> I'm not talking about some Tesla style last second bullshit where you're supposed to compensate for the deficiencies of the system that supposedly can do the full journey.

Interesting because that's just not my experience at all and a lot of other users.

[ronnier]

This goes against my daily fsd usage and my friends fsd usage. We all use fsd daily, zero issues, through hard city and highway environments. It’s near perfect outside of the occasional weird routing issues (but that’s not a safety issue). We all have the latest fsd on hw4. No other consumer car on the market in the US can do this (go from point a to b with zero interventions through city and highway). If there was something better then I’d buy it, but there’s not.

[terminalshort]

The issue here is that "zero issues" is something that must be based on a very large sample size. In the US the death rate for cars is a bit over 1 per 100 million miles. So you really need billions of miles of data. FSD could be 10x as dangerous as the average driver and still it would most likely be "zero issues" for you and all your friends.

[qwerpy]

I'll post the 7 billion miles of stats here (https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety) but then the objections will be "it's Tesla of course they lie" and the debunked "they turn FSD off right before an accident".

[FireBeyond]

How does FSD function, or will it even activate, in a Pittsburgh whiteout at 10pm in January with no visible road markings?

That's why Tesla's stats are BS. "All drivers, all conditions, all vehicles, all roads" versus "Where FSD is even functional".

[iknowstuff]

You can just google for videos you know.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2MTmSgVYTTQ

https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fsd+14+blizzard

Any more questions?

[cyberax]

Sigh. FSD is OK on freeways, but it constantly changes lanes for no discernible reasons. Sometimes unsafely or unnaturally, forcing me to take over. The previous stack had a setting to disable that, but not the new end-to-end NN-based system.

In cities, it's just shit. If you're using it without paying attention, your driving license has to be revoked and you should never be allowed to drive.

[durandal1]

For anyone who has or has experienced the latest gen FSD from Tesla this comes across as a complete lie. Why would you spend energy lying on HN of all places?

[JumpCrisscross]

> anyone who has or has experienced the latest gen FSD from Tesla this comes across as a complete lie

I used the latest FSD and Waymo in December. FSD still needs to be supervised. It’s impressive and better than what my Subaru’s lane-keeping software can do. But I can confidently nap in a Waymo. These are totally different products and technology stacks.

[cyberax]

I've been using Tesla since 2015. And no, it's not a lie.

Tesla FSD gives up with the red-hands-of-death panic at this spot: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cfe9LBzaCLpGSAr99 (edit: fixed the location)

It also misinterprets this signal: https://maps.app.goo.gl/fhZsQtN5LKy59Mpv6 It doesn't have enough resolution to resolve the red left arrow, especially when it's even mildly rainy.

At this intersection, it just gets confused and I have to take over to finish the turn: https://maps.app.goo.gl/DHeBmwpe3pfD6AXc6

You're welcome to try these locations.

[dham]

Are you talking hw3 or 4? Also, the e2e FSD is recent. And FSD has gotten really good since 13, and with 14 it's really, really good. Not sure what 2015 has to do with anything. Red hands of death would be sunglare due to your windshield not being clean. I haven't had red hands since 14 came out.

[cyberax]

Both HW versions have problems (and I have both). FSD has been "really good since VVV" for the last 6 major versions or so.

> Red hands of death would be sunglare due to your windshield not being clean. I haven't had red hands since 14 came out.

My windshield is completely normal. Not unusually dirty or anything. It's also Seattle. What is the "sunglare"?

[dham]

> FSD has been "really good since VVV"

These are influencers who have a stake in Tesla. The general consensus from the regular users is that it is really good starting at FSD 14. It's the first version that finally feels complete. I have 5000 miles on FSD 14 with no disengagements. 99% of my driving is FSD. I couldn't say that for any other version. Even my wife has 85% of her driving on FSD and she hated it before. She just tends to drive herself on short drives and in parkings lots, where as I don't. So your take just doens't line up with what people are saying in social media and my personal experience.

> My windshield is completely normal

If it's never been cleaned from the inside, it's a good chance it's not. The off-gassing from new cars causes fog on the inside of the windshield in front of the camera. It might behave ok (or wierd) but when sun hits it you get red hands of death.

You need to clean it yourself or have Tesla do it. They offer it for free. I did mine following this video and it wasn't bad if you have the right tool. After I did this things were completely fine in low direct sun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwiMCIxYFXM

[cyberax]

> These are influencers who have a stake in Tesla.

I've seen it on multiple forums. Just like a broken record.

> If it's never been cleaned from the inside, it's a good chance it's not.

The camera is clean. I can see that on the dashcam records. And if the system is so fragile that a bit of dust kills it, then it's not good.

The issue with the red-hands-of-death is caused by the forward collision warning, the road there curves and slopes up, so the car gets confused and interprets the car in front as if it's on a collision course. This happens even during manual driving, btw. False FCWs are a common problem, if you check forums, and people are annoyed because it affects their safety score used for Tesla Insurance.

FSD got better than it was 4 years ago. But it's still _nowhere_ near Waymo. You absolutely can not just sit back and snooze while it's driving, you constantly have to be on guard.

[qwerpy]

I recently went on vacation and rented a 7 year old Model X and the FSD on it (v12) was better than nothing but not great, especially after having v14 on my truck drive 99% of my miles. It truly is a life-changer for people fortunate enough to have it, so it's always jarring to see the misinformed/dishonest comments online. It's still not perfect but at this point I would trust it more than the average human and certainly more than a new/old/exhausted/inebriated/distracted driver.