[yurishimo]

Do you think the majority of those people are lying or do you think it's possible that our pursuit of algorithmic consumption is actually rewiring our neural pathways into something that looks/behaves more like ADHD?

Personally, I'm on the fence. I suspect that I've always had a bit of that, but anecdotally, it does seem to have gotten worse in the past decade, but perhaps it's just a symptom of old age (31 hehehe).

[Aurornis]

> Do you think the majority of those people are lying

I don’t think they’re lying, but it is very clear that ADHD has entered the common vernacular and is now used as a generic term like OCD.

People will say “I’m OCD about…” as a way of saying they like to be organized or that they care about some detail.

Now it’s common to say “My ADHD made me…” to refer to getting distracted or following an impulse.

> or do you think it's possible that our pursuit of algorithmic consumption is actually rewiring our neural pathways into something that looks/behaves more like ADHD?

Focus is, and always has been, something that can be developed through practice. Ability to focus starts to decrease when you don’t practice it much.

The talk about “rewiring the brain” and blaming algorithms is getting too abstract, in my opinion. You’re just developing bad habits and not investing time and energy into maintaining the good habits.

If you choose to delete those apps from your phone or even just use your phone’s time limit features today, you could start reducing time spent on the bad habits. If you find something to replace it with like reading a book (ideally physical book to avoid distractions) or even just going outside for a 10 minute walk with your phone at home, I guarantee you’ll find that what you see as an adult-onset “ADHD” will start to diminish and you will begin returning to the focus you remember a decade ago.

Or you could continue scrolling phones and distractions, which will probably continue the decline.

This is a good place to note that a lot of people think getting a prescription will fix the problem, but a very common anecdote in these situations is that the stimulant without a concomitant habit change just made them hyperfocus on their distractions or even go deeper into more obsessive focus on distractions. Building the better habits is a prerequisite and you can’t shortcut out of it.

[user_7832]

I generally and broadly agree with your comment.

> Focus is, and always has been, something that can be developed through practice. Ability to focus starts to decrease when you don’t practice it much.

> The talk about “rewiring the brain” and blaming algorithms is getting too abstract, in my opinion. You’re just developing bad habits and not investing time and energy into maintaining the good habits.

> If you choose to delete those apps from your phone ...

I would like to add that focus is one of the many aspects of adhd, and for many people, isn't even the biggest thing.

For many people, it's about the continuous noise in their mind. Brown noise or music can partly help with parts of that.

For many, it's about emotional responses. It's the difference between hearing your boss criticise you and getting heart palpitations while mentally thinking "Shit, I'm going to get fired again", vs "Ahh next time I'll take care of this specific aspect". (Googling "RSD ADHD" will give more info.)

It's the difference between wanting to go to the loo because you haven't peed in 6 hours but you can't pull yourself off your chair, and... pulling yourself off your chair.

Focus is definitely one aspect. But between the task positive network, norepinephrine and the non-focus aspects of dopamine (including - more strength! Less slouching, believe it or not!), there are a lot of differences.

Medications can help with many of these, albeit at the "risk" of tolerance.

(I agree this is a lot of detail and nuance for a random comment online, but I just felt it had to be said. Btw - all those examples... might've been from personal experience - without vs with meds.)

[undeveloper]

> Now it’s common to say “My ADHD made me…” to refer to getting distracted or following an impulse.

this is an older thing than "I'm OCD when ..."

[Bayko]

I have what you would call metric shittons of ADHD. Medically diagnosed. Was kicked outta university for failing grades and all. Pills saved me. If you think you have it, the best thing you can do for yourself is at least get a diagnosis done. In b4 people come in and chime it can be faked. Yes the symptoms can be faked. But why would you if you really want to know what is wrong with you if any? (Hoping you aren't a TikTok content creator lurking here)

[kachapopopow]

I really hope this doesn't get lost in the sea of comments and don't feel pressured to answer any of them but:

what would you recommend if one is against the idea of medication in general for neurological issues that aren't deterental to ones life?

do you feel the difference between being medicated and (strong?) coffee?

have you felt the effects weaken over time?

if you did drink coffee, have you noticed a difference between the medication effects weakening on the same scale as caffeine?

is making life easier with medication worth the cost over just dealing with it by naturally by adapting to it over time (if even possible in your case)?

this is a personal pet-project of observing how different people deal with ADHD.

[xlii]

> what would you recommend if one is against the idea of medication in general for neurological issues that aren't deterental to ones life?

Given that ADHD people tend to commit suicide 2x-4x times more often than general population [0] keep in mind that it's not detrimental until it suddenly is.

Also it gets worse with age, so it's better to get under doctor's control sooner than later.

[0]: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5371172/

[undeveloper]

I take ritalin as needed, 20-30mg a day. A black coffee will usually make me just a little sleepier, if anything at all. a couple more will do the same. Ritalin can make me sleepy if I'm already deeply tired, but after ~30min will actually allow me to partially focus on off days, and be able to get more work done on normal days. I may not need it every day.

> is making life easier with medication worth the cost over just dealing with it by naturally by adapting to it over time (if even possible in your case)?

I am now 20, admittedly "early" in my career. Through high school and the first 2 years of university I have banged my head against ADHD and tried to just "power through it" or adapt. Medication isn't a magic bullet, but it is clear to me at least now that I am at least able to rely on it as a crutch in order to improve myself and my lifestyle to deal with what is at least for me, truly a disability. Maybe one day I won't need it, but in the mean time I see no reason why attempt #3289 will work for real this time to turn around my life.

[forbiddenvoid]

Not the person you asked but:

ADHD is a debilitating neurological disorder, not a mild inconvenience.

Believe me, I wish that just drinking coffee and "trying harder" was a solution. I started medication because I spent two decades actively trying every other possible solution.

> what would you recommend if one is against the idea of medication in general for neurological issues that aren't deterental to ones life?

If your neurological issues aren't impacting your life negatively, they aren't neurological issues. I don't know what else to say to this. Of course you shouldn't treat non-disorders with medication.

> do you feel the difference between being medicated and (strong?) coffee?

These do not exist in the same universe. It's not remotely comparable.

> have you felt the effects weaken over time?

Only initially, after the first few days. It stabilizes pretty well after that.

> if you did drink coffee, have you noticed a difference between the medication effects weakening on the same scale as caffeine?

Again, not even in the same universe. Also, each medication has different effects in terms of how it wears off at the end of the day. For some it's a pretty sudden crash, for others it tapers, and some are mostly designed to keep you at a long term level above baseline (lower peaks, but higher valleys).

> is making life easier with medication worth the cost over just dealing with it by naturally by adapting to it over time (if even possible in your case)?

If I could have solved the biological issue "naturally" I would have. ADHD comes with really pernicious effects that makes adaptation very challenging.

[kachapopopow]

this is very interesting since I also know people who have been diagnosed with adhd and in manifests in completely different ways that's why I like to ask these questions, there are currently 6 known types of ADHD the latest one being inattentive ADHD.

thanks for sharing, the coffee part is mostly for the claim that it has the opposite effect on people with ADHD or no effect at all.

[akpa1]

Medicated, diagnosed ADHD-haver speaking.

Unmanaged ADHD is dangerous, and incredibly detrimental to people's lives, but the level of such may not be entirely apparent to somebody until after they receive treatment. I think the attitude of being against medication for neurological issues where that is recommended by medical professionals (including where that for something perceived to not be detrimental enough) is, to say the least, risky.

I would perhaps encourage you to do some reading into the real-world ways ADHD affects people's lives beyond just what medical websites say.

To answer your questions, though:

* Medication vs coffee: yes, I don't notice any effect from caffeine

* Meds weakening over time: nope

* Medication cost: so worth it (£45/mo for the drugs alone in the UK) because I was increasingly not able to adapt or cope and continuing to try to do so may well have destroyed me

[kachapopopow]

thanks for sharing, this is why I want to be educated by what people experience in real life.

I know I might not have ADHD, but I happen to be a magnet for people who do so it naturally peaks my curiosity as they are all considered to have ADHD, but have wildly different experience.

[lm28469]

Probably a bit of both, it's trendy do have a quirk, and modern life fucks up your attention span. Everyone wants to put a label on everything, remember when facebook had a dropdown of like 60+ genders? I also know people who talk about "being on the spectrum" all the time, at first I thought it was a meme, but they genuinely believe they're autistic because they're #notliketheothers. At the end of the day everything is a spectrum and nobody is normal, I'm not sure it's healthy to want to put a label on everything or medicate to fall back on the baseline.

[undeveloper]

> attention span

The meme of 'ADHD as the "fucked up attention span disorder"' has done immeasurable damage to people, neurotypical and ADHD alike. it is the attribute that is the least important to my life, but most centered towards the neurotypical, or the other people it bothers.

> modern life fucks up your attention span

That said, this statement is true, it's just a fundamental misunderstanding of ADHD as "dog like instinct to go chase a squirrel" or whatever. Google is free, so is Chatgpt if that's too hard.

> I'm not sure it's healthy to want to put a label on everything

I don't particularly care for microlabeling, but it's usually harmless, nothing suggest the alternative of "just stop talking about your problems" is better. People create language usually because they want to label a shared idea. This is boomer talk (see "remember facebook?" no)

> or medicate to fall back on the baseline

I'm not sure "If you have ADHD you should simply suffer because medicine is le bad" is a great stance, but you're allowed I suppose

[ajam1507]

Is it really a meme if "fucked up attention span" is one of the hallmarks of the disorder?

[lm28469]

> it is the attribute that is the least important to my life

still one of the most common symptom, and the one everyone use to self diagnose...

> because medicine is le bad

idk man, I've seen the ravage of medicine one people close to me. Years of adhd medicine, anti depressants pills, anti obesity treatments... They're still non functional, obese and depressed, but now they're broke and think there truly is no way out of the pit because they "tried everything" (everything besides not playing video games 16 hours a day, eating junk food 24/7 and never going out of their bedroom, but the doctors don't seem to view this as a root cause)

Whatever you think, I believe some things are over prescribed to the point of being a net negative to society. I never said adhd doesn't exist or shouldn't be treated btw, you seem to be projecting a lot of things. If it works for you good, personally I prefer to change my environment to fit how my brain/body works, not influence my body/brain by swallowing side effects riddled pills until death to fit in the fucked up world we created and call "normality"

[habinero]

> I prefer to change my environment to fit how my brain/body works, not influence my body/brain by swallowing side effects riddled pills

Just try harder to make insulin, bro. You can outthink that t1 diabetes if you try hard enough.

This weird macho resistance to and scorn of anyone using the mental tools we have available is why men kill themselves at a much higher rate. There is no award for who struggled the most in life.

Do they always work? No. Do they work for a lot of people? Sure do. Can they be replaced with diet and exercise and different circumstances? Yeah, sometimes. Is that realistic? Not usually.

They aren't magic. They don't forcibly make you happy or change your personality or make your problems go away. You still have to do the work. But they're a crane to help lift the crushing weight you're under so you can shimmy out from under it.

If you don't want to use them, fine, but not using them doesn't make you a better person.

[undeveloper]

> still one of the most common symptom, and the one everyone use to self diagnose...

I, and pretty much everyone I talked to who was diagnosed with adhd in late teenage years on, actually primarily used executive dysfunction to self diagnose and then persued official treatment. you pulled that straight outta your asshole, shove it back up there

> doctors don't seem to view this as a root cause

how the hell would doctors know? bring this to any psych and they'd immediately tell you to knock that shit off, but what the hell else are they supposed to do?

> I never said adhd doesn't exist or shouldn't be treated btw

your opinions seems to boil down to "lmao just try harder", which seems less useful than throwing pills at the problem. you have the mental model of a cat

> proooojecting

the words of someone who can't articulate their position