[WackyFighter]

Sorry that isn't true. Lots of smaller communities online, especially around small streamers make small meme style videos. Usually these are mocking someone doing something dumb online, or jokes/memes about the show etc. These are similar to parody videos online that were hugely popular on YouTube back in the early 2010s.

People did do this before AI. Usually cutting people faces out and sticking them on actors faces in existing movies, or subtly doing parody cover, doing clever edits (Cassette Boy is a notable example) or people were performing and recording it like the "Epic Rap Battles of History".

All it done is allow people to create these sort of to a higher creative standard, in other cases it allowed people to create jokey stuff that they wouldn't otherwise be able to create.

People using this technology in this manner is clearly creative. They are using the tech to make something new and unique for a particular audience.

In the 80s/90s you would be complaining about people using tracker software and samples to create music instead of learning to play an instrument. Under your logic someone like FatboySlim isn't a musician.

[bicepjai]

I have another example. Web development. Dealing with css and designing exact objects or elements in websites was a pain meaning needs technical expertise, time and good idea to be expressed. LLMs made it easier. Still the website created by a dilettante can never compete with one from a creative mind.

[dangus]

Can’t compete in what way? Popularity? Views? Revenue? Profitability? Reader satisfaction?

Sometimes a website that looks like shit does its job better than one that is finely crafted.

Berkshire Hathaway has a text only website with no CSS at all.

[bicepjai]

I am talking about differences like these :)

https://ciechanow.ski/ vs https://debugarguments.app/

[WackyFighter]

> Sometimes a website that looks like shit does its job better than one that is finely crafted.

It even better if it looks good and works well. You can make sites that do both.

[dangus]

If I have $500,000 I can buy a car that’s meticulously hand-crafted with hand-stitched leathers and fine woods in the interior with an engine built by hand by a single person.

But I just need to get from point A to point B so I have a $10,000 used car.

[WackyFighter]

Or you could get one with a better service history, the paint job and interior is in better condition, and it has the optional extras and a recent cam belt change for $12,000.

It depends whether you think the extra cost is worth it.

[vanviegen]

Under your logic someone playing a CD is a musician.

I'm exaggerating a bit to make the point that the amount of human creativity put into a work of art is not binary. Just pasting a rehashed joke as a genAI video prompt is not much of a creative process.

[narcindin]

We call them DJ's and many are quite famous.

[epolanski]

DJs are rated on their ability to read the dancefloor and get people to dance.

[soiltype]

Yes, well, that sounds exactly like the skillset of a meme creator in a slightly different form factor.

Most arguments against gen-AI are bad arguments - you can (and should) admit this even if you (like me) don't respect gen-AI.

[epolanski]

I haven't stated anything about meme creators using AI, I just pointed out a DJ's skill isn't based on randomly playing songs.

[WackyFighter]

I think a lot of people mean "Wedding DJ" or "Radio DJ".

However there is a whole small subculture around this. A friend would go hunting for records to sample in Charity shops for old vinyls (this was pre-ebay). This apparently is known a "Digging" and lot of Music Producers, DJs etc would do this to find samples for their sets/albums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6aQgZFrVKE

Similar you have people using tracker software on old Amigas / Ataris to play sets.

e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkTQ-15jGD0&list=RDCkTQ-15jG...

[soiltype]

Oh. Why? I didn't see anybody arguing that DJing was random or unskilled.

[Tallain]

Do you honestly believe that DJs, particularly the very famous ones, just play CDs?

[Sohcahtoa82]

Discussions about "DJs" are difficult because there's a WIDE range of skills behind what we call a DJ.

Yes, some have zero skill and will basically just show up with a pre-determined Spotify playlist. They won't even have mixing/transitions between songs.

Some are in the middle and will be able to do basic transitions between songs (ie, just simple beat matching) and know how to carry a vibe.

At the far end of the spectrum are actual composers that are effectively making new mixes of songs on the fly.

And so you have the problem where someone says "Being a DJ takes a lot of skill" because they're thinking of the last category, while the person hearing that message replies with "How does it take skill to just press Play?" because they're thinking of the first.

[redwall_hp]

"What do DJs actually do?" https://youtube.com/shorts/9WqICdFQqkE

[vanviegen]

I think many of them don't even do that live anymore, as the entire set has been mixed upfront in order to preprogram visual/light/pyro effects. :-)

[WackyFighter]

> Under your logic someone playing a CD is a musician.

No. That isn't my logic at all.

> Just pasting a rehashed joke as a genAI video prompt is not much of a creative process.

That isn't what is happening. What people are doing is taking people from different online streaming shows, making new content based on jokes made on those show and turning them into music videos, which are usually a cover of a well known song.

People have been doing this online without AI for quite a while. Usually this was with various music software. All AI does, it make this process easier.

[SoftTalker]

Any time something is made easier and you get more of it, it becomes worth less.

There might be a claim that there is still some human creativity involved, maybe. But it's sort of like amateurs at an open mic night telling memorized jokes that they didn't write compared to a comedian who has spent thousands of hours perfecting stories, jokes, punch lines, timing, and phrasing.

[WackyFighter]

> Any time something is made easier and you get more of it, it becomes worth less.

That is only the case with commodities. Not creative works and/or entertainment.

> But it's sort of like amateurs at an open mic night telling memorized jokes that they didn't write compared to a comedian who has spent thousands of hours perfecting stories, jokes, punch lines, timing, and phrasing.

Often these amateurs are often funnier than the professionals. However that of course is subjective.

[beezlebroxxxxxx]

Using samples is not the same as AI or creating AI videos. Nor is using photoshop or an editing suite.

"Creating" AI art is analogous to commissioning a work of art from someone else.

Person A put in a request to person B, pers. A receives a mockup or a draft from pers. B, pers. A and B might engage in convos to refine the work, pers. B delivers the final product to pers. A. AI "artists" are person A in that scenario.

Sampling, like FatboySlim, or many other producers, is clearly not person A in that scenario. They're exerting intentional, direct, creative control. Creating AI art is mediated in a way that is far more indirect and stochastic. The creative inputs in AI art is more directly the text in the prompt rather than the output. Editing the output afterwards is creative input afterwards, though. However, sign a work you commissioned from someone else as your own and people will probably roll their eyes, which I think describes most reactions to AI videos.

[WackyFighter]

> Using samples is not the same as AI or creating AI videos. Nor is using photoshop or an editing suite.

It is very similar. You are using a piece of software to aid in the creative process.

In these cases, you are remixing previous artistic works to create a new one.

> "Creating" AI art is analogous to commissioning a work of art from someone else.

Depends what you are doing and how you are using the AI. So this isn't always the case.

If all they did was "Take Thriller but make it look like an anime". I would agree. But there is obviously more happening than that.

> Sampling, like FatboySlim, or many other producers, is clearly not person A in that scenario. They're exerting intentional, direct, creative control. Creating AI art is mediated in a way that is far more indirect and stochastic.

No often I've created some basic stuff and you really have to tell it exactly what you want, often make sure it has the right images, fonts etc.

I could do the exactly the same in GIMP. It would just take me longer as I will have to watch a YouTube tutorial for the 5th time on how to add a text shadow to some text as I use GIMP about like twice a week and forget how to do stuff.

So what is the difference between me providing commands via a prompt to make an image, as opposed to using a mouse and keyboard in GIMP? How I am inputting the instructions? There is a bit more abstraction.

However one is considered creative by you and another isn't, because there is a slight loss of direct control.

Similar with these AI parodies there is obviously a lot of work done in getting the AI to produce the output they want. Especially considering some of the characters are obscure individuals.

There is a creative process taking place. Just because you've used AI (which at the end of the day is a piece of software) doesn't invalidate that process taking place. It doesn't mean the creative process is done by the AI either.