[vel0city]

No, I just want to pay a fair amount of taxes. Honestly the gas taxes should be increased or we should move to a tax structure where it's mileage, weight, and emissions based.

Paying 3x the same taxes while having less externalities isn't fair.

[caseysoftware]

As I've cited elsewhere on this thread:

> With that information, the British newspaper calculated that BEVs [battery electric vehicles] could expose roads to 2.24 times more damage than gas cars.

Ref: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bevs-could-also-damage-ro...

If that's true, then 12-15k miles in an EV would be equivalent to 27-33k miles in a gas car in the externalities of road wear & tear.. so "taxes equivalent to 35k miles" is at most 25% higher in a "damage per mile equivalent" but could be as little as 6% using the averages.

If your actual mileage is over 15625/year, then you're paying less than the equivalent.

What's your annual mileage?

[vel0city]

27 isn't 35 no matter how many times you say it is.

> If your actual mileage is over 15625/year, then you're paying less than the equivalent.

The average is less than that by a decent bit, so more than half of US cars are paying more even with your unproven, contorted math based on some estimates done once in the 70s and never really looked into closely again.

It's also assuming the difference in weight. The closest hybrid I would have bought instead is only like 100kg lighter than my EV. And it gets like 40mpg, better than 35mpg.

It would also mean semi trucks should pay like 20,000x more in registration fees. Does this make sense?

> What's your annual mileage?

Less than 15k on that car (like most people), so even with your assumed math it's overpaying.

[pclmulqdq]

Semi trucks pay huge amounts in gas taxes because they guzzle gas like nobody's business. It's only the EVs that aren't paying for their road wear in gas taxes.

[vel0city]

20,000x more in taxes?

[turkeyboi]

Realistically speaking, they probably do. Do you know how much fuel they use and miles they drive per year?

[vel0city]

Average class 8 truck (>33,000lbs) burns under 11,000GGEa year, ratio is 1GGE=1.13gal of diesel. So somewhere under 12,500gal of diesel on average, but we'll use that to lean even more in the truck's favor.

https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10308

Are you suggesting the average car burns less than 1 gallon of gas a year?

A 20mpg car driving 12,500mi (the average ICE in the US) would use 625gal of gas. So more like 20x, maybe 40x if the per gallon tax of diesel is double. Pretty dang far off from 20,000x.

And they're doing way more miles while being massively heavier, meaning incredibly more harm on the road than whatever EV you're thinking.

[rjrjrjrj]

12-15k miles in a Ford SuperDuty is equivalent to how far in a gas Civic? I suspect that driver isn't being charged accordingly.

[caseysoftware]

Registration fees are likely the same or close but when you factor in gas taxes (the original comparison here), the Ford is definitely paying more both based on fuel type and mpg.

[rjrjrjrj]

More, sure. But not remotely proportional to the increased wear and tear from vehicle weight.

[caseysoftware]

Possible. How far off is it?

[rjrjrjrj]

Pretty far?

According to your link, an EV that is 700lb heavier => 2.24x damage

Civic: ~2900lb SuperDuty: ~5700-7600lb

[loeg]

You keep repeating it, but it's reductive at best and incorrect as a general assumption.

[caseysoftware]

Is there another model you'd recommend to estimate/compare road wear and tear?

[loeg]

1:1 is at least as good a default assumption.

[caseysoftware]

Based on numerous studies, we already know it's not 1:1 so why bother starting with a default assumption that we know is wrong?

Do you have an alternative analysis? I'd love to check it out.

[vel0city]

> Based on numerous studies

I do agree the relationship probably isn't linear, but the fourth power rule doesn't necessarily have numerous studies confirming it. It was a small collection of studies on road wear the US highway administration did in the 1950s and pretty much everyone has just gone with that. Other studies have pointed to it being less than previously thought.

https://discovery.ntroknowledge.com.au/discovery/fulldisplay...

Throwing even more weight against your 12,000mi is really 35,000mi equivalence.

[loeg]

I don't agree with your base assumption here.