[chrisBob]

Electric pickup trucks are hard, mostly because they need to fill an imaginary, or aspirational use case. More than 99% of the pickup truck miles in the US could be filled by an electric truck with a 150 mile range that people charge at home. But no one will buy that truck because of the desire to take long trips, and potentially tow a long distance.

The driving and ownership experience of electric vehicles is MUCH better, but it is hard to convince buyers to try it out.

[everdrive]

>The driving and ownership experience of electric vehicles is MUCH better

Until EVs solve the cost problem as well as the "tracking device" and the "I have 8 iPads built into the dash" problems I'm not very excited.

The Slate looks pretty exciting in this regard but I'm worried it will ever exist, or if it will fall badly short of cost estimates. It's already slipped to ~$27.5k due to the expiration of the EV tax credit. In practice, whenever a car says "starting at $xx it's usually impossible to find that model and you can only get the midrange models which are $5-$10k more than the base price.

[edit]

Interestingly as well, the Slate sidesteps the towing problem by refusing to attempt to tow. It's rated to tow 1,000 lbs, which is effectively nothing. It's still got a respectable payload, though, so it does work as a truck.

[pavel_lishin]

> Until EVs solve the cost problem as well as the "tracking device" and the "I have 8 iPads built into the dash" problems I'm not very excited.

Are these problems exclusive to EVs?

[everdrive]

Yes. For ICE cars I can just buy older cars. _Some_ modern ICE cars avoid this. As recently as 2024 the Nissan Frontier base model has no cellular modem, and also only has one small screen but otherwise has physical buttons and physical gauges.

The Slate would be the only EV coming out that avoids this problem, which combined with the price is one of the reasons I'm interested.

[bluGill]

You can buy an old ICE and convert to electric. At this point most ICE that isn't a tracking device is old enough that you need to be comfortable doing your own maintenance anyway so the effort of the above is no longer an excuse.

[_aavaa_]

Good luck getting it insured.

[bluGill]

People do this all the time. Insurance is available. You can't get a scrap car, but if there is a valid title you can insure it.

[dabluecaboose]

The problem isn't exclusive to EVs, but thus far EVs are exclusively aforementioned rolling iPads.

With ICE cars, at least you still have the (dwindling) option of buying an older vehicle

[bdcravens]

No, but I believe that EVs tend to have way more bells and whistles to create some perceived value due to the inherently higher cost.

[chrisBob]

I live in a two car household, and I need one vehicle that is comfortable on long trips, and one to handle truck jobs like hauling brush, firewood, oversized items and 3 bikes. My wife, daughter and myself vastly prefer our electric car (IONIQ 6) around town, but even as a big fan of the car I am still uncomfortable using it on long trips, so our truck (Honda Ridgeline) is still a gas vehicle.

I predict that EV trucks with a range extender will do very well in the US, and will be the catalyst behind the move to electric trucks. Once people get the experience of an electric truck they will love it, but the option to dump in gasoline and drive 400 miles without charging is an imaginary barrier that stops most customers from giving it a shot.

Personally, I would love to see an electric truck that can be charged while driving by an external generator, possible mounted to a trailer.

[Marsymars]

I was going to make a similar point - the math changes quite a bit if you're a multi-car household - in that case it absolutely makes sense to have at least one vehicle that's a short-range EV.

My household is a newer hybrid Ford Maverick and an older ICE Impreza (that gets worse fuel economy than the Maverick) - if we were replacing the Impreza today we'd probably go for a 2026 Leaf or a used Chevy Bolt.

[chrisBob]

I had a 2004 WRC that we replaced with the IONIQ 6. The Hyundai is a great upgrade, and let us keep AWD. We could get by with less range on that car, but for now we just take the truck if we are going more than 100 miles one way.

[red-iron-pine]

did you forget to change accounts there, killer?

or you just felt that those needed to be two separate posts?

[chrisBob]

I really thought a sub post was better than one long one. I never understood the two account thing except for specific situations where you don't want to talk about X with an account that has a lot of NSFW content on Y.

[ubermonkey]

Not for nothing but this is also one of the reasons electric motorcycles are lagging.

A HUUUUUGE number of motorcycles never go more than 50-75 miles in a day. CycleTrader is awash with 3,4,and 5 year old bikes that have barely been ridden. A 100 mile range electric bike (e.g., the Harley Livewire) would 100% fill those needs.

But people think they're gonna go on long trips, or whatever, or ride more, and they scoff at a bike you can't ride all day even though they'll never actually ride a bike all day.

[l1tany11]

I think you’re way off tbh. Something like 85% of the motorcycle market is for pleasure. Plenty of those bikes have a range of only ~100 miles as it is. Stopping is not really the problem. The problem is the charging infrastructure does not exist and the charge times are way too long.

Do some motorcycle owners commute on their bikes? Of course, but that’s clearly the minority of the market. The reason cycle trader is full of low mileage bikes is that the whole activity is kind of a pain in the ass when you think about it. Add charging to that and it’s just too much to bear.

Pleasure riders often ride on nice sunny sundays in groups to ruralish areas where it’s scenic and the roads are winding with few traffic lights etc. they need to be able to “gas up” a significant number of bikes quickly. And that shit is a pain to organize so they do it like twice a year. Hence the low mileage.

Electric motorcycles really are a super hard sell. The stark varg makes way more sense cause that’s a type of motorcycle that gets carried to the destination most of the time anyway. So the range thing is way less of an issue and the upsides stand out way more. That’s probably why I see way, way more Vargs or bikes like them than live wires.

[ubermonkey]

>Plenty of those bikes have a range of only ~100 miles as it is.

This is not true. If I'm wrong about this, I'd love to be shown a citation.

The Livewire problem is MOSTLY that (a) Harley made it too expensive and (b) Harley has to performativly hate anything that isn't big and loud with a vibration at idle that would churn butter. And they do this to the detriment of their brand.

[l1tany11]

Streetfighter v4s has a 4 gallon tank and gets 25-30mpg. It’s what I’m most familiar with, but all my friends with different bikes are in about the same boat as me. https://www.reddit.com/r/Ducati/comments/wlw98q/v4_fill_ups_...

It’s more common among the sporty bikes. A lot of these bikes didn’t even have a fuel gauge until that long ago. Just a fuel light. Tons of guys say they go about 100 miles for fill ups. Maybe that’s cause of the history of the bikes, you want a number that’s easy to remember cause you were really looking at the odometer as your gas gauge. Even a Harley bob only has 165 miles of range according to the website. Assume you don’t go from absolutely full to empty, 1 gallon less than the maximum, you’re at 120 miles.

Yeah the live wire is real expensive. Where are you going to charge it? It doesn’t make sense. Compared to a car the battery is tiny, so you should be able to charge at like full DC fast charge rates on a level 2 charger. Except the original livewire had a super weak built in charger so it couldn’t charge at above 1.4kw? So you had to look for dc chargers. It failed for really good reasons. That’s the point I’m trying to make, it failed for good reasons. I think it’s actually rational.

Traditional motorcycles are a terrible use case for replacing with electric right now. But on the commuter side they are becoming insanely popular (although I think usually they are the illegal suron type bikes).

I’m not gonna defend harleys and cruising. I don’t get it. I’m just saying these things are mostly toys. The new bike buyer is buying a toy. But lots of people have lots of reasons for things. Personally I think sporty cars are about handling and power and stuff so I think sporty EVs are great. Most people disagree with me. They want noises and “character”.

[ubermonkey]

So sure, you pick a high-test bike absolutely not intended for anything but urban hooliganism.

There are virtually zero bikes with an range of only 100 miles. People still joke about the VMax because it actually DID have that limitation. It's the exception that proves the rule.

The vast majority of bikes are good for materially more than that. Even my very staid, traditional Bonnville will easily make 150 on the highway if not farther. My BMW will double that.

My main point about the Livewire is that it's more than Harley failed IT because they're absolutely terrified of annoying their MAGA boomer base that is incredibly hostile to the whole IDEA of EVs.

Daily commuter bikes are a GREAT use case for electrics, IMO. I know a couple folks here in Durham who do it (one, in fact, on a Livewire). I haven't looked hard at electric bikes myself because I do much farther rides than that, so the utility isn't there -- but as an urban runabout, they're awesome.

[sowbug]

My dad has been telling the same story for ten years. He wants to take a trip around US national parks, sleeping in the back of the car, under the stars, which is why his car needs a 500-mile range and must be fueled by gasoline. This conversation always comes up at family gatherings when he asks how I like my electric car.

He's in his mid-80s with prostate problems. He has never taken the trip.

[red-iron-pine]

and he never will.

on the plus side you stand to inherit a fairly lightly used truck in a few years

[frogperson]

When a new truck is $80k, it has to do everything becuase its an only vehichle. If they made $20k-$30k trucks, then its alot easier to justify it as a second vehichle that isnt required for long trips.

[everdrive]

That's very true. I bought a quad-cab midsize truck and it feels like the ultimate compromise:

- Not amazing at hauling people

- Only OK payload

- Not the best gas mileage

- Too expensive (but still cheaper than other midsize trucks -- $36k)

With how much everything costs this truck really _had_ to be a compromise. It had to be able to do everything. I'd have much rather had an old crappy truck and then a normal family car, but those seem to have all been priced out.

[bluGill]

> potentially tow a long distance.

IF you do this even once a year you don't really have any other option. Finding a rental truck that allows you to tow is hard. The vast majority won't allow it. When you do find one it is generally in an inconvenient location and very expensive. I can justify keeping my truck (long paid for) just because just 2 trips a year need a truck and so it is cheaper overall to just own the truck (tax and insurance is low) than to rent.

[9rx]

I'd love to have an electric pickup truck. It'd primarily be for farm use, so no long distance concerns, and being able to bring electricity to the field would be a huge boon. It is really the perfect package.

But I wouldn't buy one for the same reason I won't buy an ICE truck right now: They are way too overpriced — costing around 300% more than the truck I currently have cost when it was new, even though inflation is only 40% over the same period.

[chrisBob]

Cost is a concern, and there will be a cost penalty at purchase time for a while. That will impact some people, but there is still a big market for expensive trucks.

[9rx]

For now. It won't last. Trouble is that these EV projects are all being abandoned now and won't be available to purchase when the market comes back to reality.

[mixmastamyk]

This made me realize that another set of batteries should be installed in the boat trailer (etc), rather than carrying them around every day when not needed.

The charger station situation will probably need to be figured out however.

[toomuchtodo]

Would you drive an electric Kei?

[jjice]

I don't know if I'm in the excited minority, but that may be the only kind of vehicle I would ditch my existing car (Corolla) for before it dies.

[toomuchtodo]

This admin seems to love Kei trucks, and Edison Motors makes retrofit kits. If US legacy auto is unwilling to build EV pickups domestically, we'll import the components and bolt them together.

https://edisonmotors.ca/trucks/pickup-kit/

[bongodongobob]

Beyond that, there's a huge culture/propaganda problem for the demographic. Electric vehicles are gay, for sissies, we run on gas like my grandpappy did, climate change is fake, toaster on wheels, Joe Biden wants to take our trucks away, etc. Also the legitimate repair complaint: joe redneck can easily get parts for his 1998 F150 and fix it himself. There is no EV repair culture yet.

[chrisBob]

I didn't want to say it in my original post because I don't want to offend anyone, but "Most pickups are gender affirming care".

[SeanAnderson]

Your perspective is kind of confusing to me.

I'm 35, don't own a vehicle, and have never owned a vehicle. I live in SF. I think I'm finally getting to the point in my life where, maybe, I want a vehicle. I'd use it to take myself to camping music festivals and Burning Man. That's about it. Oh, I'm sure I'd find other uses for it, helping friends haul stuff, etc... but, practically speaking, most of my needs are consistently addressed by public transit and/or Waymo.

I guess what I'm trying to say is - literally the only time I feel like I'm missing out on a vehicle is when I have a need to transport a large amount of stuff a large amount of miles into desolate environments.

Does that mean my desire for a truck is imaginary/aspirational because, if I were to own it, 99% of the time I'd be content with a low range battery? I can see why people would think that, but, to me, it seems more like the 1% is the rationale for owning the vehicle.

[wolfram74]

/Owning/ the truck would be imaginary/aspirational as you imagine yourself using it often enough to justify the expenditure. If it's for trips that are 3~4 times a year it probably makes more sense to rent.

[mikkupikku]

Best car for you is a used beater. It'll be fun for road trips, and then when it rots all year unused in a parking garage you shouldn't feel too upset about it because it was shitty to begin with.

[khuey]

Most Americans live in built environments where they need a vehicle for all the things you do with public transit and/or Waymo.

[Tadpole9181]

Why would you buy a car to use it thrice a year? You'll end up paying a thousand dollars a trip, amortized, on the sticker cost alone. Multiples if you buy a new top-line pickup? Let alone the maintainence nightmare from leaving your poor clunker sitting around for months.

Also, you must understand that your use case here isn't even remotely the norm.

[chrisBob]

I don't think people who can meet there needs with public transit are the target market of many car manufacturers. Most truck miles are driving to work and the store. Your use case sounds like it would be perfect for renting a vehicle, especially since it would save you from storing and insuring it an extra 300 days per year.

[bluGill]

> Your use case sounds like it would be perfect for renting a vehicle, especially since it would save you from storing and insuring it an extra 300 days per year.

Have you ever looked at the real costs of renting. More rentals won't let you tow. They won't let you go off road (no burning man!), even if allowed they will charge you for the damages typical of going off road. Any just when you think you have navigated all that you get there to pick up the car you reserved and they are sold out.

I'm not saying renting cannot work, but it isn't nearly as clear cut as people keep saying.

[interestpiqued]

I agree with you and made a comment in another related thread. I think there’s just a subset of people online who don’t realize it’s a value judgement or just take issue with others judgement of value in owning a truck.

[IncreasePosts]

Why wouldn't you just rent a truck for those few times a year when you would like one?

[amanaplanacanal]

In theory, you could rent a truck for the 1% of the time you need it.

[fooqux]

It's all about convenience, like most things in life. How many times per year do you need to go through the hassle & headache of renting a vehicle before it makes more sense to just buy one?

1% of 365 is still nearly once a quarter. That would be enough for me.

[tristanb]

Yeah but then you can't put a snorkel on it and extraction boards and expedition gas cans so you can advertise how adventurous you are in your spare time.

[sowbug]

Until you buy a vehicle, owning one is imaginary/aspirational.