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by 23434dsf 181 days ago
Americans cant have their cake and eat it too. The allies are quietly leaving the room and forming alliances without Americans.
3 comments

I'll bite. What are those new alliances of significance? I mean real significance in military means, or trade, or industry?
They should but they're not. They are also controlled by the interests that control the US.

Europe could be relevant again if it only embraced China and gave NATO the finger.

Any specific examples you can speak to? Which countries? Who are they allying with?
Not sure what 23434dsf means but America's traditional allies like Canada, Europe and maybe post WW2 Japan are forming an alliance against Russia's invasion into Europe, while Trump's position seems to be it's ok for Russia to take land by force as long as he/the US get a cut of the plunder.
Are you suggesting that Canada, Europe (I take it you mean the EU and UK), and perhaps Japan are forming a separate alliance without the United States because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

Can you link to anything specific? Have there been alliance talks? What are the new alliances being formed called? I know there have been some arms purchases and agreements but that wouldn't have anything to do with forming an alliance separate from what already exists today.

That's not an alliance, nor is it seeking to be one.
The wikipedia has "Building upon these bilateral discussions aiming at creating a hard core of allies in Europe focused on Ukraine and wider European security..."

I guess it depends how you define things.

Nothing of note, yet. Like most US corporations, they're holding off on implementing real changes to see if we the people choose to continue on this self-destructive course after He leaves office.
In some ways self-destructive, in other ways not. President Biden restricted early use of long range weapons to strike Russia - that was self-destructive too.

Really, what exactly are folks asking the United States to do here? Give more money or weapons? Sure we could give even more, I support that. I'm quite hawkish on both Russia and China.

But I don't think that giving more money and arms tips the scales enough for Ukraine to force Russia out. So where does that leave us? The EU isn't going to do anything militarily about the situation. As the PM of Poland said, 600+ million Europeans are asking 300+ million Americans to defend them from 180+ million Russians. Something doesn't seem right. That doesn't mean the Trump Administration has handled this well. I'll give them to the extent that it is genuine that pursuing peace, if possible, is what we should do. But it also doesn't mean that all of the political grandstanding and TRUMP MAN BAD is getting us anywhere either. Has he handled our alliances poorly, yea I think so. Are our allies leaving and forming new alliances? No, not in any material sense. Does Europe need to step up and spend to defend itself, absolutely. It also doesn't mean President Trump needs to be an asshat either. Some ways self-destructive, other ways not.

I would have prefered the US to be a bit firmer about Russia not invading in 2022 like don't do it or we'll send jets.

Still here we are and like you say 600m+ of us wanting 300m+ Americans to defend against Russia is a bit odd although you can see how it got that way - after WW1 and WW2 it seemed quite a good idea not to rearm Europe and the US was quite keen to confront the Soviets. It's changing now due to Trump being a bit useless and Europe not wanting to be next on the list after Ukraine.