[falcor84]

I don't think there's any redefinition here, and it's exactly this dichotomy that makes this a big issue. Vulnerability is indeed not "a good thing", but the issue is that the struggle to constantly keep yourself invulnerable at all times is a "worse thing", leading to many stress-related issues (amongst other problems). So the modern psychological advice, as I understand it, is to find particular people, spaces and opportunities where we can let our guard down, even at the risk of being open to attack, because the alternative is worse.

There's a stoic quote I love:

> our ideal wise man feels his troubles, but overcomes them

- Seneca, Moral letters to Lucilius/Letter 9 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Let...

The way I see it, if you never let yourself be vulnerable, you can never fully feel your troubles, and you cannot fully overcome them.

[mewpmewp2]

I guess the question is -> why do we need that guard in the first place?

Is this about other people being immature or looking to abuse us? Is this something that generally goes beyond school?

[Joeboy]

> Is this something that generally goes beyond school?

The things that make you vulnerable change depending on what year and situation you're in. I can very much get behind the idea that you should consider whether your legacy sense of what makes you vulnerable is relevant to your current circumstances. I'm not so much behind the "freely dispense the rope people will use to hang you" version.

[mewpmewp2]

There's a lot of abstraction in this thread, but I would like to hear specifics.

What are the exact vulnerabilities that we are talking about?

From my side I guess I can say I frequently feel like impostor type of things or that I'm not doing enough. I won't mention that at work, but I definitely share those feelings to my partner.

I would hate not being able to share something like that to my partner for instance.

I wonder what others are talking about?

[Joeboy]

When I was at school (and in the 20th century generally) admitting to anything outside traditional masculinity / heterosexuality made you vulnerable to physical / verbal attack. Which remains the case for a lot of people in the 21st century. If they want to be loud and proud then good for them, but I can understand it if they prefer to keep it quiet. Whereas, at least around me, now, I think you can come out as gay without too much concern for your physical safety.

Conversely, at my school you could be as overtly homophobic as you wanted with no consequences, whereas now you should probably be a lot more cautious if you harbour homophobic sentiments.

Talking about partners in particular, I've had partners I felt fairly safe sharing anything (most things anyway) with, and I've also had partners who would mine our conversations for any kind of viable ammunition. Which led to me being a bit more careful what I said. We can perhaps agree the first kind of relationship is better.

[mewpmewp2]

Yeah, I think the 2nd type of relationship is much worse than no relationship, I'd say the problem there wouldn't be with someone being vulnerable, it's the problem with the relationship...

Yeah, during school it's difficult since you are forced together with potentially toxic people. As an adult you can choose at least in personal life and to an extent workplace, although sometimes workplace can also be difficult to get right.

I'd 100% rather be alone than around people who might judge or use in someway against me anything about me. It would feel internally disgusting for me to think that someone might be trying to get at my expense and that I'm not around people who are there to try and build each other. What a waste of time.

[Joeboy]

The thing is, what you want is specifically a relationship where you are not vulnerable. If you're not worried about the consequences of the things you say, there's no actual vulnerability. You're just adapting to a safe situation. In which case good for you and you partner.

[ben_w]

> Is this about other people being immature or looking to abuse us? Is this something that generally goes beyond school?

Yes to both.

Psychopaths do to everyone what everyone does to out-groups, and we're all someone else's out-group.

[akimbostrawman]

You really don't need to reach that far. As a man if you are too often vulnerable, too much, for the wrong reasons or at the wrong time you will loose the respect of your partner and soon after there love.

[mewpmewp2]

I guess that would depend on the partner? And what do you mean by vulnerability in that context that would make her lose respect?

And what do you mean by wrong times or reasons?

[zozbot234]

Most people seek emotional support, resilience and trustworthiness from their partner, and being excessively "vulnerable" can definitely hinder you from playing that role effectively. This is what can sometimes be experienced as a loss of respect. What you really want is to show a mere modicum of emotional vulnerability that your partner can then have some opportunity to empathize with, and not view you as overly brittle. But not more than that.

[squigz]

Why would I seek emotional support from someone so disconnected from their emotions they can't show more than a "modicum" of vulnerability?

How could I trust someone's resilience when they don't show they've been through things that built that resilience, and demonstrate it?

How can I trust someone who so closely monitors how much and what sort of emotions to show to me?

[mewpmewp2]

What could be examples of excessive vulnerability?

[squigz]

Not everyone's partner is that shallow.

[akimbostrawman]

Exceptions don't invalidate the rule. Everybody thinks there partner isn't right until they are.

[squigz]

Your experiences don't validate the rule, either.

[andersonpico]

divorced dad take

[akimbostrawman]

Crazy cat lady take. See I can make useless remarks too.

[andersonpico]

your whole text above is useless for everyone but you, but I understand you can't contain how you feel about woman

[mewpmewp2]

I think some concrete examples would be great. I think we need some examples of vulnerability too. Is vulnerability just about showing your actual emotional state? E.g. if you are depressed, anxious or nervous?