[brabel]

> We are still trained to hate women, to hate ourselves and to be angry at women if they step out of the neat little box that public perception has put them in.

I really don’t see this. Female singers seem to be enjoying about as much freedom to do and act in whatever way they please as it’s possible without basically letting them get away with criminal behavior… and even then many openly talk about doing drugs and other stuff that would get anyone else in trouble. Is it possible I am blind to some patriarchal society traits that make us “hate” women and she’s right about that?? If not, why some women still believe that??

[NaomiLehman]

Few female pop stars manage to gain success without appealing to the "male gaze" even if they produce stuff for women as their target demographic. On the contrary people mostly don't care if male musicians are hot - Ed Sheeran or make very questionable decisions - Drake.

Look at top 20 male and female popular artists on Spotify and try to think how many of them are agreeable and objectively good looking.

https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html

I don't know know if this answers your question. I also might have a huge blind spot, open to talking about this.

[amenhotep]

The majority of the popular male musicians there are comparably photogenic to the females, Sheeran is really the major exception and he's not even ugly, just Distinctive in a way that's easily matched by Sia and personally I'd say both Gaga and Eilish.

It just looks like pretty people are in general a lot more successful, which is unsurprising. The attempt to apply a sexist lens to it is a bit tortured.

[NaomiLehman]

i absolutely don't agree that they are in the same ballpark of being photogenic when we look at top 50 and estimate averages - this could probably be easy to measure with a jailbroken LLM.

the difference is even bigger when I look at agreeability - this is more difficult to measure.

[k__]

Who in the top 20 wouldn't you consider conventionally attractive?

[brabel]

But I was talking about is that she believes there’s a hate of women, that they must fit some preconceived image… and what I see in real pop stars is the total opposite . They seem to do all they can to look scandalous and shocking. They mostly go for the hot female image but some don’t. Being good looking yes is an expectation but how does that have anything to do with hating women and patriarchy??

[low_tech_love]

I also think she missed the point there. Normal people bust their asses on a daily basis to do a good job at whatever it is they do, with more often than not, under rewarding compensation and a lot of problems to overcome. I think it is normal for average people to think that it isn’t fair that some of these people are getting so much overwhelmingly good stuff for things that can be reasonably seen as futile.

[frosting1337]

I mean she basically points that out when she talks about going to restaurants.

[imtringued]

It's the other way around. Female privilege is invisible, so you can easily claim the opposite.

Female privilege can be used to bend men to a woman's will. It's kind of like a resource curse like oil exports. You can cheaply import anything and pay for it by exporting oil. This means your country doesn't have to develop independent production, which makes it dependent on the imports of another country. When things are going wrong internally, you can always point at an external locust of power. The problem is that your trade partners are no longer exporting their products to you and they obviously know that this will hurt your country. They are making a calculated decision against you. You are powerless and it's because the other countries have been hoarding/accumulating power and are using this power to keep you powerless. The classic communist excuse that it's the capitalist sanctions that are the problem.

As I said, the problem is a lack of an internal locust of control. The externalisation, no matter how convincing, is a way to distract from the actual problem. The fact that there are gender specific boogiemen doesn't really change anything.

[Gunax]

I always thought this was applied to all celebrities as a way to feel superior. But, I am not really sure.

Normal people despise being lectured by celebrities about social or political issues.