[tkel]

17 states have government owned stores, it's common across the US. They sell liquor and in some states they also sell groceries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_sta...

On policing, Urban Alchemy is the company that was contracted in SF. Having worked directly with Urban Alchemy for years in LA, their staff are severly underqualified and 95% of the time will do nothing once arriving on site. The most I've ever seen them do is break up a fight. Is doing nothing better than actively harming people and making the situation worse, as the police often do? Yes. Is it improving the situation? No. Also, what is your definition of success? No first responder can prevent a crime from happening, all responders arrive after crime has occurred. Putting people into cages as the only option actually leads to worse outcomes for crime. And after decades and billions of dollars spent on the failed war on drugs, we know that is not a viable or successful approach. Part of the job these alternatives are supposed to be doing, is addressing root upstream causes of crime.

On the other hand, the alternative to policing pilot in Denver, Support Team Assistance Response (STAR), has been a wild success.

[jaredklewis]

I’m continually frustrated by the amount of press the grocery store thing gets. I’m probably against it, though it’s hard to know because there are not clearly outlined policy goals for what the grocery stores would try to accomplish and how. But that’s beside the point. My issue is that a government run grocery stores are one the least remarkable points of Mamdani’s platform. NYC already has a budget shortfall of ~$5bn and he wants to spend billions on free buses, tens of billions on child care, and (IIRC) borrow another $70 billion for housing development.

NYC tax revenues are not growing and even optimistic estimates of the proposed tax increases (which the mayor doesn’t have the power to impose anyway) top out at $8 billion.

This is the epitome of magical thinking. Even with the most optimistic estimates of revenue increases and conservative estimates for the proposed spending, the numbers are miles away from adding up. And we’re talking about some municipal grocery stores? Like even if he really screws it up, the cost is probably only in the hundreds of millions.

[breakpointalpha]

He's been very clear that he intends on raising taxes to cover the budget shortfall and additional services.

"Zohran’s revenue plan will raise the corporate tax rate to match New Jersey’s 11.5%, bringing in $5 billion. And he will tax the wealthiest 1% of New Yorkers—those earning above $1 million annually—a flat 2% tax (right now city income tax rates are essentially the same whether you make $50,000 or $50 million). Zohran will also implement common-sense procurement reform, end senseless no-bid contracts, hire more tax auditors, and crack down on fine collection from corrupt landlords to raise an additional $1 billion."

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14-aM9DKG337SDMilmfQtLRR-pDw...

[jaredklewis]

Yea, I’m aware of that. Problem is that it is innumerate. Raising $6 to $8 billion in revenue is not enough to cover a $5 billion deficit and something like $50 billion in additional services and housing development.

Would be great if Democrats can stay the party of serious governance and not style drift to the post-truth style embraced by modern Republicans. I’m glad we’re nominating young, charismatic candidates, but we need to stay in reality.

For a more sober look at the proposals (you sent a link to campaign material) see https://www.cato.org/blog/mamdanis-wishful-thinking-tax-reve...

[abe94]

A liquor store and a grocery store aren't the same thing, they were set up for different reasons, have different policy goals and are run differently. Also if the goal is helping with "food deserts" - which seems like a tenuous claim already for a city with a ton of bodegas there are better less costly solutions. When comparing actual state run grocery store pilots (in the US) they have been a disaster - see the kansas city example here (https://www.kcur.org/news/2025-08-12/kansas-city-grocery-sto...)

Denver is the best example in the US that saw limited success, and one of the very few - in most places similar approaches were tried (in the US), we were worse off then just keeping police as the primary responders. In NYC specifically we tried a pilot recently, and it was (unsurprisingly) ineffectual - where police had to be called as backup 65% anyway(https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/audit-of-the-behavioral-...). So no in NY at least police don't make the situation worse thats a myth.

[malyk]

Isn't that a 35% reduction in police response?

[rufus_foreman]

Government owned liquor stores were put in place because the free market was too good at supplying people with liquor, and governments wanted to put restrictions and guardrails around people's access to it.

Is that the case with groceries?

[simonsarris]

Yeah we have state liquor stores in NH and they are much more expensive[1] than driving down to Massachusetts and going to total wine. The point of the stores is not to supply people in the Shire with liquor for cheaper. It's to make it more expensive and then use the profits to fund the state.

It's so thoroughly different in goals from the NYC plan that I'm in awe people would conflate them.

[1] For example Seven Deadly Zins wine is $19 in NH, currently very on sale for $13. Or its just $11.49 at Total Wine in Mass without any sale at all! Ketel One vodka is $38 in NH, or $28 in Mass.

[wutbrodo]

> No first responder can prevent a crime from happening, all responders arrive after crime has occurred

I've never understood this claim. Are you unaware of the concept of deterrence, or do you reject that it exists?

[Izkata]

"Beat cops" barely seem to be a thing anymore, so I'd guess anyone under 30 might think it's only in movies and TV, if even that.

[abe94]

Which is an issue.

Mamdani and politicians with similar 'progressive' positions are those advocating for reducing them (either through budget cuts, or moving resources to worse initiatives), while the most robust studies on crime have shown beat cops to be pretty effective for reducing crime (see the Philadelphia Foot Patrol Experiment, and other meta analyses)