[lopis]

It's the mismstch of expectations that causes good communities to create drama. If this was Google, no one would care, as one expects Google to just do what is best for the business. But with companies like Mozilla we expect a bit better. But the truth is they are barely better and the leadership plays by the same rulebook.

[small_scombrus]

People did used to have decent expectations for Google back when they at least pretended to care about the "Do no evil" tagline

[matt89]

Indeed but it feels like a lifetime ago. I miss those days where I would look up to google and their products, as something new, cool and "not-evil".

[hitarpetar]

it's always been marketing

[neilv]

Maybe. But if the founders were at all pre-gold-rush Internet people, sentiments like "don't be evil" seemed (in my impression at the time) more the genuine norm than the exception.

[hinkley]

It's pretty clear they've been full evil for a while. It's documented at least back to 2011 but the rest of us didn't clue in for a while after.

[saalweachter]

"Don't be evil."

"Do no harm" is the doctor thing.

[lopis]

Google burned all that goodwill to fuel their growth. It worked great for them. But now they have none left.

[Stranger43]

But why does it have to be the case that the leadership of an opensource project have to emulate the desperation and authoritarianism of a potentially stagnant tech sector.

I don't think it's malevolence from the mozilla leadership team but more that if you hang around people who have bet their lifesaving on the success of cloud based LLMs, being cautious and making their use "optional" might begin to sound like a really controversial position even if that's actually what the users/community want from Mozilla.

Firefox market share have been declining and it's not easy to point to any obvious technical problem, so the reason for the decline is likely that the Mozilla corporation keep messing up the narrative by acting like just another Silicon Valley tech firm.

[toyg]

> why does it have to be the case that the leadership of an opensource project have to emulate [...] tech sector.

Because they live in the same places. They go to the same restaurants, they have the same conversations, they have personal friends at FAANG... they live and breath the same ideas, the same opinions, the same perspectives. They are in a bubble, and think "their" org should partake in the same behaviours as all the other companies out there - if anything, because it will be useful for their CVs when they inevitably look for a new job next month or next year. I don't blame them, it's inevitable human behaviour.

Maybe Mozilla should relocate the bulk of their leadership outside the US.

[johnnyanmac]

>Maybe Mozilla should relocate the bulk of their leadership outside the US.

They don't even have to leave the state. Just don't be stuck in that same stagnant SV bubble and bring in people with genuine ideas and initiative.

[johnnyanmac]

The people running the show are not the people who started and enforce the idea of an open source initiative, that's why. If most of the current administration got ousted tomorrow you'd see them pop up as senior executives in the very companies Mozilla theoretically decries.

Wolves see the community sheep build and then move in under wool coating. Doesn't mean they still are not in fact a wolf.