[GenerWork]

>his policies are relatively common sense and middle of the road.

Rent control isn't middle of the road, it's 100% socialist. Same thing with city run grocery stores. He also wants to defund the police while replacing them with community outreach people, as well as raising the minimum wage to $30 in 5 years which is absolutely wild. None of this is middle of the road in any way, shape, or form.

[toomuchtodo]

The minimum wage not being indexed to inflation has been theft for decades. It would take a minimum wage of almost $60/hr to maintain purchasing power from 50-60 years ago.

https://www.epi.org/blog/the-value-of-the-federal-minimum-wa...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/minimum-wage-york-2024-live-1...

https://livingwage.mit.edu/

Edit: If the system of “we make asset prices go up while labor prices are inflated away” gets to the point where a living wage is unobtainable (we are here), we can change the system. The name is irrelevant, it’s fundamentally “what are you optimizing for?”

This happens eventually (wage increases) due to global structural demographic working age population compression, the argument is really time horizon if we help people live better lives with dignity now vs years from now as labor supply declines.

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jesusfv/Slides_London.pdf

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

[kortilla]

You didn’t read your own link. The peak value of minimum wage was $12.12/hr in 1968 after adjusting for inflation.

https://www.epi.org/blog/the-value-of-the-federal-minimum-wa...

You cannot with a straight face claim bringing it to $60 has anything to do with inflation when the value it would need is right in that article.

[toomuchtodo]

I misspoke by not including more detail. $66/hr to match homebuying purchasing power of Boomers in the 70s. You can get away with less per hour as a living wage assuming reasonable rent, and in NYC, that is likely $30/hr (which we will get to as older voters continue to age out, and younger voters age into the electorate, and are engaged to push wages higher [exit polls show ~75% of New Yorkers 18-29 voted for Mamdani]).

https://www.epi.org/blog/a-30-by-2030-minimum-wage-in-new-yo...

> With the FBC cost data we can estimate a living wage that would allow workers to support their families. Table 1 shows that the living wage in 2025 is already above $30 an hour in Manhattan ($33.89), Queens ($31.31), and Staten Island ($30.68). While Brooklyn and The Bronx do not exceed this threshold, the costs facing these families will almost certainly continue to rise between today and 2030. These figures make it clear that discussions of a $30 minimum wage in New York City are not superfluous—they reflect the very real needs of working people throughout the city.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/guy-shared-just-high-min...

> Someone Calculated What The Minimum Wage Should Be Today Compared To The '70s In Order To Afford A Home

> Now, Chris's video isn't to suggest that minimum wage, at any point in its history, allowed people to buy homes outright. Rather, he told BuzzFeed, he wanted to highlight the ways in which "wages have decoupled from cost of living, housing prices, and broader economic growth over the last few decades."

> "The original purpose of the minimum wage was to ensure that even low-wage workers could participate meaningfully in the economy. Not just survive, but live with dignity," he said.

[TheCoelacanth]

That's more of an issue with housing prices drastically outpacing inflation because of dense housing construction being illegal in most of the country.

[almosthere]

So if minimum wage was $60 in a year you'll see a bread loaf for $900

[toomuchtodo]

Please prove this assertion. Show your math. I can pickup a loaf of bread for $1.42 in a state with a $15/hr minimum wage, as of this comment. What does a $30 minimum wage make it? $2? $2.50? The horror. $900? I am doing my best to be polite and charitable.

[almosthere]

Yes I was being sarcastic. But in CA when a typical wage went to $20 for Walmart or fast food, everything skyrocketed. At my grocery store you can get a bag of Fritos for $6 now, which should be no more than $2. If we triple the $20 (making it $60) we'll be paying $18 for a bag of Fritos. So yeah, I was joking a bit on the bread loaf, but we would be in an era of paying $600 for your grocery trip for 4 days of eating.

[mcdonje]

Prices went up everywhere, even in places without minimum wage increases.

[Shocka1]

I sense your frustration and I think they were probably being a bit sarcastic... I won't speculate on a loaf of bread, but I would speculate that everything from a loaf of bread to a home increases in price substantially if minimum wage were raised to $60. As wages increase, prices tend to follow, since workers across the spectrum demand higher pay.

I'm not against raising minimum wage, but economics is a very complex thing and changes like that need to be approached carefully.

[prpl]

The minimum wage should easily be 11-13 by any inflation metric you use for the last 40 years, and doubling that for a high cost of living place is reasonable.

Lots of states have state-run liquor stores, even super conservative ones.

It’s a smaller delta than you think.

[kortilla]

11-13 isn’t anywhere near 60.

Anyone who has shopped a state run vs regular liquor store knows how much worse the gov version is unless your goal is higher prices, worse service, and worse selection.

[bluecalm]

The reason state-run liquor stores make some sense is that we don't want to optimize alcohol sales. Neither on price nor volume. This is unlike groceries. The same reason state run monopoly on gambling makes sense but state run monopoly on car manufacturing doesn't.

[noobermin]

He has moderated on the police funding issue, and the rent freeze is for already rent controlled apartments.

[nobody9999]

>the rent freeze is for already rent controlled apartments.

That's actually not true. The rent freeze is for rent stabilized[0] apartments. Rent control[1] is a different program and is tiny in comparison.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_regulation_in_New_York#Re...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_regulation_in_New_York#Re...

[GenerWork]

>He has moderated on the police funding issue

So he already backtracked on a core election promise even before he got elected? Doesn’t bode well for his supporters expectations going forward.

[pkulak]

Seems like before you’re elected is the perfect time to adjust policy positions. Or, really, any time you’re presented with new facts.

[adrian17]

As far as I know, “defunding the police” wasn’t a campaign promise, let alone a “core” one. It indeed was the opinion he had in the past (and you can argue about whether he still thinks that privately), but there are also many statements from the last several months that he’s explicitly _not_ running on that.

[FrontierProject]

Core election promise? It was a comment he made half a decade before running for mayor. Perhaps it's time to update your Kool-aid detectors.

[emchammer]

It’s as if people can change their opinions about things as they become better informed.

[matsemann]

What a weird take. Isn't it better that he says it before the election? I think you just have it out for him, and no matter what he does you will find a way it's wrong.

[ryandrake]

When your road is all the way to the right, then yea, none of it is middle of the road.

[GenerWork]

Please explain how city run grocery stores are middle of the road politics. Perhaps they’re middle of the road when your road is all the way to the left.

[Epa095]

I see it as a middle of the road statement to say that government should work for its constituents, and help ensure that they get basic nessesities like shelter, food, schooling and health care (yes, I know that this is already controversial).

Using the market is well and fine, but if it for some reason does not work it's the government's job to find a solution which works. Think about how things are handled in emergencies. The neutral thing is to find a solution, not be married to some ideological ball and chain saying that THAT particular necessity must be solved in one particular way no matter what.

When that is said I don't live in NYC, idk how the food desert situation is there. But I have heard enough stories from credible sources that I would be surprised if it's all made up.

[fastball]

The problem with the idea that it is the government's job to ensure "necessities" is that the list of what is a "necessity" only ever gets larger – it never shrinks.

[Epa095]

I think if you go to Scandinavia or the UK you will find the opposite. Housing is an example of a field where the government was much more active pre the 80s. Idk if the US has had the same development, but it is certainly not a global truth that it only goes one way.

[fastball]

Yes when you run out of money the actual interventions invariably shrink, but AFAICT the expectation has not changed.

[pkulak]

The state should step in and run anything that the private market cannot. I don’t live in NYC, but if there’s a market failure in groceries, do it.

[timr]

There isn't a market failure in groceries in NYC. There's a huge number and diversity of stores, and profit margins are as low as anywhere else in the world. Also, of course, see the sibling comment who is complaining about grocery stores while using Amazon Fresh. There's a competitive delivery market.

Of all of his policies, I actually don't really care if he wants to try to put some grocery stores in grocery deserts. It probably won't work, but whatever.

[metabagel]

There aren’t any food deserts in NYC?

[timr]

I'm sure there are, just like everywhere else.

[bradlys]

Couldn’t do worse than the grocery stores in nyc that already exist. Terrible service, horrendous price, bad inventory, etc.

I did all my groceries in nyc via Amazon fresh for the last two years because of this.

[apparent]

Sounds like you have a great option then, no need for the govt to open taxpayer-funded stores.

[majewsky]

They said they have _an_ option. They did not say anything about it being "great".

[wk_end]

Really depends on where you are in the city; I used to shop at Whole Foods on the UWS and it was lovely, and when visiting this past summer my friend and I visited both the Bowery Whole Foods and the Wegmans near Astor Place and zero complaints with either of them.

But TBH I don't think the grocery deserts he's looking to service are going to be anywhere near where the average HN user lives.

[Ferret7446]

The market failure in NY is due to the local government, so clearly the local government stepping in to offer a replacement is the solution. On an unrelated note, I have a bridge to sell you.

[dboreham]

Cities run all sorts of things. What's the big difference between garbage trucks and sewers and a grocery store?

[ryandrake]

Also, several states have state-run beer and/or liquor stores. It's not some wild unheard of experiment. We've gotten so used to the acceptable political spectrum spanning from "far right" to "extreme right" that we forget what left even means.

I'm almost 50 and the last president we ever saw that was even remotely towards the left was in office when I was born.

[wk_end]

Whether or not public grocery stores are a good idea, the comparison to state-run liquor stores doesn't really make sense; the justification for state control of liquor sales is entirely different (arguably even kind of the opposite) as the justifications presented for public grocery stores.

[figmert]

> several states have state-run beer and/or liquor stores

Actually could not believe this, so had to look it up. I find this wild.

[kortilla]

Yeah, pretty terrible outcome from prohibition designed to curtail alcohol consumption. It’s pretty the worst example to go for if you’re trying to convince people that state stores are good.

[jandrewrogers]

I lived in a state when the state-run liquor stores were closed and it transitioned to the private sector. It was a massive improvement, a big win.

The weirdest part of the transition was the fear mongering about consequences. This despite the reality that most states don’t have state-run liquor stores.

I’ve never lived in a state where state-run liquor stores weren’t worse than what you had in states without them.

[timr]

I mean, yes...but having lived in multiple states with various forms of state monopoly on alcohol sales: state-run liquor stores suck. Citing them as an argument in favor of state-run anything is sort of making the case for the other side.

[apparent]

The original claim was that his policies are middle of the road. Based on the very few US cities with govt-run grocery stores, it's pretty clear that the policy is not middle of the road. It is an outlier.

[slg]

Last I checked, if you wanted to buy more than a 12 pack of beer in the state of Pennsylvania, it had to be from a state run store. Is Pennsylvania socialist?

[lp0_on_fire]

I live in PA and can literally walk to a private beer distributor from my house and walk out with something larger than a 12 pack. There are no state owned beer distributors as far as I’m aware.

Most (not all) Liquor / Wine sales are somewhat monopolized by the state but it’s a remnant from prohibition and nobody except the people getting their palms greased by the system likes it.

[slg]

Fair correction, I apparently merged the laws about beer and liquor/wine in my mind. Beer in quantities larger than 12 packs comes from distributors which are regulated more than bottle shops but aren't state run, while it's liquor and wine that needed to come from state shops.

[lp0_on_fire]

No worries. It’s been in flux over the past decade. A few of the major grocery chains pushed to change the laws so they could sell beer and wine under a certain ABV. It has to be in a dedicated area and they can only sell during certain hours.

The state shops themselves aren’t all that horrible IMO but they’re nothing to write home about either. That being said It’s pretty hard to screw up liquor sales when you’re the only game in town.

[throwaway3060]

In this regard, yes it is; the biggest reasons they keep it around are the jobs it provides and the money the state makes off of it. In return, residents get low prices but less choice, and in some areas, poor access. Most people hate it.

Only in the last decade or so has some competition been allowed.

[slg]

>In this regard, yes it is;

Great, then "socialism" doesn't have to be the scary word that it is made out to be in the US! We have at least 17 socialist states already.[1]

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_sta...

[throwaway3060]

I did write:

> Most people hate it.

Not exactly an endorsement. If your pitch is that socialism means more places work like the liquor stores, you'll be creating a lot of capitalists.

[loeg]

That's a pretty bad policy PA has, however you want to characterize it.

[slg]

I'd agree, but I would also point out that a state monopoly is a much more extreme policy than a few state run stores. And considering the discussion was about where these policies sit on the ideological spectrum, an example of a more conservative state with a policy further to the left does suggest that maybe this is in fact "middle of the road".

[danw1979]

The government selling food directly to it’s citizens represents the raised red fist of communism to American conservatives ?

[bix6]

$30 min wage sounds doable? CA took fast food min wage up to $20 and it’s been fine.

[loeg]

> CA took fast food min wage up to $20 and it’s been fine.

Reduced employment by 3% but otherwise fine, yeah.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w34033

A nationwide $30 minimum wage would have a significantly higher impact (most places have lower wages than California and $30 is more than $20).

[surajrmal]

3% of fast food jobs. Honestly that seems like a worthwhile tradeoff. Fastfood prices have increased a lot in recent years as well, but it's unclear how much if any is due to minimum wage increase.

[loeg]

Fast food jobs are where the higher minimum was imposed.

It's fine to argue it's a good tradeoff; I just want advocates to admit there is a tradeoff.

[what]

>fine

A medium fries is over $4 before taxes… over $1 more expensive than the rest of the country.

[toomuchtodo]

McDonald’s made $14 billion in profit last year. It’s not the labor driving the costs, it’s the profits.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44968997

Same with Chipotle.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45762671

Who pays the profits? Like tariffs, the consumer. You pay for these billions in annual profits.

[underdeserver]

McDonald's the corporation doesn't sell fries, they rent out real estate and franchise licenses.

What you really need to look at is the cost of labor for a random McDonald's franchisee.

[toomuchtodo]

> While menu prices did increase, costs rose by an average of just 1.5% –equivalent to about 6 cents on a $4 hamburger, down from the 15-cent increase reported in the September study.

Study: California's $20 fast-food minimum wage improves pay at small cost to consumers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43806608 - May 2025

https://www.axios.com/local/san-francisco/2025/02/27/uc-berk...

https://irle.berkeley.edu/publications/brief/effects-of-the-...

[kortilla]

What was their revenue and what was profit as a percentage of that?

If the profit percentage hasn’t increased, “record profits” is meaningless drivel that just means it kept up with inflation.

[kelnos]

I'm ok paying a little more for fries if it means the people making it and serving it to me are paid a living wage.

Regardless, the fries cost what the local market can bear, not what they "want" to charge for them.

[surajrmal]

Prices are not related to costs. That's just a lie to folks use to justify price increase to the market. Prices never decline when costs do unless the consumer is wise enough to know like in the case for gasoline.

[wk_end]

That's probably OK when the poorest workers are making the difference ten times over per hour.

[debtta]

Why would you expect fries to cost the same in California as in much poorer states (most of them)?

[bradlys]

Have you seen how fries are made at McDonald’s? There’s nearly zero labor involved. It’s nearly automated. You’re paying that price cause that’s what the market will bear and McDonald’s needs to see profits go up.

[almostgotcaught]

In-n-out fries are 2.45 (and a burger is 4$).

[bix6]

Do you know why in n out is so cheap still? It seems like all the other fast food jumped up.

[almostgotcaught]

the answer is staring you in the face and you still can't see it. let me give you a hint: it's also the reason arizone ice tea is still $.99

[jasondigitized]

The minimum wage needing to be $30 is just math unless you believe people shouldn't be able to live in America.

[enaaem]

Price distortions are bad because the market might not react correctly to it. But if there are too many restrictions to build housing anyway, you might as well ease the pain for social harmony.

[debtta]

I mean, if 50% of the population vote for something, arguably it is middle of the road.

[dboreham]

The lowest I've seen for low end jobs recently in Montana is $25/hr so $30 in NYC seems entirely reasonable.

[DANmode]

What part?

(McDonald’s is still $17 an hour in Billings.)

[dboreham]

Livingston

[Izikiel43]

> wants to defund the police

Ask Seattle how well that turned out

[pkulak]

Why? They didn’t defund their police.

[Izikiel43]

They tried, lots of people left, then backpedaled, and it's still not what it used to be.

[Kephael]

Seattle upset their police force and made them quit, they then had to pay overtime to fewer remaining officers which increased their spending.

[mcdonje]

"made them quit"

That's some editorializing

[whoooboyy]

Seattle has largely increased police funding, dramatically? For a dept under a consent decree until recently.

The mayor also capped non police crisis response teams to 24 people. Total. For the city. 24.

Seattle has done everything except defund the police, lol

[Izikiel43]

Those are recent measures. They had to increase funding because they decreased it, and shit hit the fan, and they are trying to hire people back.