[Max-Ganz-II]

Back in early 2022, a little after the war started, TransferWise blocked transfer (i.e. donation) to the account run by the National Bank of Ukraine for support of the Ukrainian military.

I have and never will forgive them for this.

[cpncrunch]

Looks like it is probably against their acceptable use policy:

1.2.3 Other restricted activities c. Weaponry, military and semi-military goods and services. Weapons (including weapons of historic significance), military software, or any other goods or services intended for military use.

[jesterson]

> I have and never will forgive them for this.

Ukraine is well known money laundering machine. Before the conflict started it was a well known fact and many banks didn't want to work with transfers to Ukraine. I am sure TransferWise shared similar risk model.

[hkpack]

> Ukraine is well known money laundering machine.

Can you provide any sources for this?

Ukraine had very strict banking rules for at least a decade. It had much more sense to launder through Cyprus for example or other EU countries like Latvia (when it was still possible) or Hungary if you’re politically connected.

[jesterson]

> Can you provide any sources for this?

Thats common knowledge for everyone even tangentially related to finance industry and likely for anyone who ever did international business with cross border payments . Not sure what kind of "sources" you expect to see here.

> Ukraine had very strict banking rules for at least a decade

Perhaps for it's own populace, but not for it's rulers and those who they work with.

[hkpack]

Okay, so basically you’ve read some “anonymous sources” and decided they are true.

Because for me, as a person who did international business from Ukraine it makes absolutely zero sense to launder through Ukraine as it is:

1) no part of any union, so you will be unable to spend or move money outside.

2) it has extreme bank regulation, and you cannot just send money outside without cause. Receiving and sending money for fake “services” will not work (compared to a lot of other places I know)

3) it has a lot of independent anti-corruption institutions. You can be sure that any government official fears the consequences of doing something illegal.

4) it is in a state of war and any suspicious money operation will trigger investigation from SBU as well, since Russia tries to pay for its agents.

If there is corruption and money laundering happening, it is well outside of any path available for regular people.

[jesterson]

It’s advisable not to judge within your limited worldview. Not everyone “reads” mainstream media, some people have real world experience.

Your arguments regarding why Ukraine can’t be used for money laundering are laughable and just show you are now aware how certain things in financial world work. That’s totally fine - but it gets distorted when some extended judgements are made based on very limited worldview.

[hkpack]

So enrich my and other peoples world view - this is what this forum is about. Instead of saying "I'll leave it to your imagination", please provide any substance of your claims - anything we can talk about.

Since you didn't I have to guess, what you are talking about.

[jlaternman]

Do you mean some Russians used Ukraine as a money laundering middleman, specifically through corruption of politicians and elites in the system there? Because it sounds like it. Before the "conflict" (invasion) happened.

[jesterson]

I'll leave your imagination to judge who used ukraine as money laundering machine. To have some supplementary data for that, we can look where the money entering ukraine come from for say last 5 years. You can easily find how much was coming from russia and compare it with flow from say EU. You should be capable of drawing your own conclusions after.

[hkpack]

You can imagine all sorts of things, including the ones which are not true.

The fact is that there are no proofs that any money donated by EU, US or other donors for Ukraine was misused.

I’ll leave your imagination to judge why the most powerful propaganda machine in the world tries to claim otherwise to stop such aid.

[bfkwlfkjf]

Everything you say might be technically true.

But if you look at the bigger picture, Ukraine has been invaded and occupied by a bigger countries which buys western banks to do it's money laundering through. Now is not the time to be discipling.

Justice is more than just following laws.

[jesterson]

> Justice is more than just following laws

Justice also isn't what you feel justice is.

The whole point of laws is to have a set of definitions and do judgements upon.

> buys western banks to do it's money laundering through

Western banks do enough money laundering even without changing owners to beneficiaries from Russia.

[cjs_ac]

Yes, but that's a matter to be settled in a court. Banks and other financial institutions have no business deciding what's just; they just follow the regulations given to them by governments and the courts.

[Max-Ganz-II]

Russia invaded Ukraine, inflicting untold horror, and Russia is a threat to Europe.

In the circumstances of early 2022, I would have expected a way to be found, in the knowledge that such an action - telescope held to blind eye - would be condoned.

[jesterson]

> Russia invaded Ukraine, inflicting untold horror, and Russia is a threat to Europe.

Realistically it is way more nuanced than that. Its a juvenile worldview to think in black and white.

Not willing to start any discussion on the matter, but you may want to know about massacres ukraine did in it's eastern side. After all, the russian invasion wasnt that unprovoked at all (albeit as any force causing many to suffer, it's hard to justify it).

The bottomline is - reality is way more nuanced than just black and white.

[mieses]

No, it's really very simple. What kind of person wants to become a CEO of Russia, Ukraine, or Transferwise?

[Max-Ganz-II]

> Not willing to start any discussion on the matter, but you may want to know about massacres ukraine did in it's eastern side.

This is a Russian narrative.

> After all, the russian invasion wasnt that unprovoked at all

This also is a Russian narrative.

It seems to me you have been from some source been absorbing Russian material.

Putin is a dictator. A few years after he came to power in 2000, Russia was once again living in fear; you did not speak out. If you did, fines, prison, penal colonies with death and violence, or now and then being thrown out of windows.

It looks from material being produced by Putin, the State and the military Russia by about 2010 was looking to take Ukraine.

Putin had his man running Ukraine - into corruption and thuggery - until Euromaiden. He fled to Russia. Literally immediately after that, plan B - the small war began. Finally, 2022, the big war.

There is nothing here where we go "it was not that unprovoked".

Ukraine wanted, and wanted, freedom. To be itself, and not to live in a hell-hole dictatorship. Putin wants to possess Ukraine, because that's how he and it seems a good part of Russian State culture sees the world; in terms of power, conquest and territory.

[bfkwlfkjf]

That's your opinion. Businesses make their own decisions. You'd be aware if you knew anything about history.

[Max-Ganz-II]

It was possible to make transfers to the military support account for about two weeks after war started; then it was blocked.

Transfers to other accounts were still possible.

[jesterson]

Amount of theft from “military” accounts in Ukraine is staggering, if anyone would ever be interested to figure out. Everyone know that except people blindfolded by the world “military” and deluded to think money there would be used on anything else but beneficiaries whims.

[Max-Ganz-II]

Supporting evidence, please. So far you've made claims only - "everyone knows".

Kyiv Independent, who are pretty good at this and are on the spot, do not report large scale or significant military corruption. They have found and report on pretty corruption (individuals selling personal weapons). I note EU and US are very interested in keeping track of where the money is going.

[jesterson]

Sapienti sat. Just because your favourite media piece does not report something it doesn't mean things don't exist.

> I note EU and US are very interested in keeping track of where the money is going.

That's funny :)