[stuckindoors]

Enforcement on businesses hiring non legal workers - gets the root cause. Without fixing that we are just playing wack a mole - people will still venture to the US since jobs exist and ICE is better than what ever crap they are coming from. Sure you may dissuade a few on the margins.

We are not fixing the root cause here even if you believe that immigration is bad for the country. It’s just a farce.

[Nextgrid]

Companies that employ undocumented workers at scale have significant political power and deporting them en-masse would shock many industries, so this won’t happen.

The recent ICE shenanigans (which don’t get me wrong - are awful and badly executed) are just performative bullshit to please the voter base. In fact I’d argue they are intentionally executed badly to attract media attention so they can all say they are being tough on immigrants.

[sieidj184]

The deeper purpose is to create another state-sanctioned security force that is highly associated and politically enabled to deal with ‘undesirables’ outside of normal legal process. Then include whoever is needed under the label ‘undesirable’ — see other comment about a journalist being detained and questioned

[actionfromafar]

Yes - ICE is filling a similar role to what Wagner did in Russia and the brownshirts in Germany. A parallel structure which can be deployed anywhere against anyone. The concentration camp building industry is looking great.

[blurbleblurble]

You're telling yourself what you want to hear. I guarantee you these guys are dead serious, and they've recently gotten a huge flush of cash.

[jasonboyd]

I agree they are deadly serious, but to the parent commenter’s point, why wander the streets grabbing random people when they could go straight to the employers? They would have far more success targeting farms, construction sites, restaurant kitchens, etc.

The answer is the business owners are their constituents. They cannot afford to piss them off. If they lose their support the wheels will fall off this farcical performance.

I grew up in Florida, and I remember the sugar plantation “raids” they used to stage. They were a complete dog and pony show. They would announce them in advance so the plantations could hide most of their undocumented workers. Then they would round up just enough people for the photo op to prove they were being “tough on immigration.”

This is the same thing but on a grander and more dangerous scale.

[fwip]

They are showing up at workplaces and getting people.

Here's one that happened near me last month: https://cnycentral.com/news/local/breakdown-ice-detains-work... - and there are more happening in other places.

[FireBeyond]

Not quite. You had a bunch of workers at Tyson Chicken and Hormel Foods... At Tyson, underage and other undocumented workers were complaining about OSHA type stuff... next thing, there's a raid, 900 workers rounded up. Awkward moment as many of them spoke about how Tyson knew they were undocumented, and even handed over the written instructions provided to them on how to fill out paperwork and stay under the radar if they were.

"That is outside the scope of this investigation." Nothing ever happened.

At Hormel, complaining about all sorts of strange diseases and health conditions, possibly from inhaling aerosolized pig brain all day long? Oh, look, another raid.

"Won't someone rid me of these meddlesome workers?"

Just a theory but it seems highly plausible in both these cases that the companies and ICE colluded... stage a big photo op, get rid of problematic undocumented workers and oh, hey, wouldn't you know, no plans to investigate the company?

This is also your friendly reminder that visa overstays are a misdemeanor, but for an employer, assisting or knowingly hiring undocumented workers is a felony. Tough on crime, indeed.

[netsharc]

I'm guessing the companies can make things go away by donating to someone with (R) suffixed to their name. Ha, someone's a magician, they can turn a democracy to a banana republic very quickly.

Is it (R) or (M) for MAGA.

I used to joke "Hello to the NSA analyst reading this!" when talking about "sensitive stuff" in private messages, but I guess that needs to be updated to "Hello to the LLM!"

[night862]

If you have time, can you link reporting?

[Teever]

> why wander the streets grabbing random people when they could go straight to the employers?

Because immigration stuff isn't the primary purpose at this time. The primary purpose is to normalize a police state, to invoke feelings of fear in the general population and to build up a bigger infrastructure to do more authoritarian things.

[blurbleblurble]

The employers are more often white and/or more politically aligned.

[morkalork]

>why wander the streets grabbing random people when they could go straight to the employers? They would have far more success...

"The purpose of a system is what it does", not what it claims to do. Today it looks like that purpose includes mass surveillance of social media.

[tracker1]

They are targeting those locations... but they need credible reporting of wrongdoing in order to do so. Insider reporting, anonymous tips, etc. They generally don't just randomly show up at an employer without initial reporting of a crime.

For the most part, they've been targeting visa overstays by those who have been charged with and/or convicted of other crimes in the US. Not significantly different than under Obama. It's only that the visibility has been turned up to 11 along with ramped up protests and state/city sanctioned resistance in some locations.

As to the ramp-up in scale.. that's what happens when you let 5x the amount of people legally allowed entry to come into a nation in a relatively short period of time illegally. over 90% of asylum claims are invalid and fraudulent... there is almost no legitimate reason for crossing into the country outside a recognized port of entry.

I say this as someone who feels that immigration should generally be tied to "do you have a source of income and a place to stay?" at its' core... combined with a multiple of minimum wage as an income baseline with hefty employer side taxes to go along with. Arguments against doing so are very similar in my mind to having slavery... it's not okay, not good for the nation. I have similar feelings that "free trade" should only occur when similar quality of life or safety measures are in place. I'm optimistically libertarian minded, but recognize reality.

[johnnyanmac]

> I guarantee you these guys are dead serious

Just because the grunts are dead serious doesn't mean the initiative is dead serious.

Even then, serious doesn't equal competent. They are still trying to deport Abrego Garcia. Spending millions in legal fees and transport to deport a single man is not pratical in the slightest.

[esseph]

It's not about practically, it's about enforcing will and punishing enemies, especially self-created ones.

[johnnyanmac]

Yes. The cruelty is the point. But that's of course not how they message it to their party.

Turns out cruelty is very expensive to maintain, though. And we certainly do not have the economy to keep accommodating the narrative as real citizens starve and lose jobs. Something's going to break.

[blurbleblurble]

Listen I'm sure there are some who are in it only for the messaging.

But you're in denial if you really think certain driven individuals in all three branches of the us government aren't dead ass serious about taking this stuff to misanthropic ends.

[dpkirchner]

The grunts are surely dead serious, but the bosses? Nah. If they were they'd be sending execs to prison. Anything less is pointless if you truly want to solve the problem.

[clipsy]

You're assuming that the thing they're "serious" about is ending illegal immigration.

[blurbleblurble]

The bosses are serious about making the US an authoritarian ethno state.

[deaux]

A MAGA state first and foremost. The hierarchy is "white MAGA > non-white MAGA > white silent > non-white silent > white anti-MAGA > non-white anti-MAGA". Will they eventually come for everyone but the first group? Very likely, but there's always a priority ordering. I'll leave it to the proper historians to decide how similar this is to the state they're using as their main inspiration.

[naijaboiler]

The thing they are series about is racism, and having power to terrorize anyone they deem “undesirable”, a group which may one day include you

[blurbleblurble]

"truly solve the problem" ???

[wombatpm]

I believe Stephen Miller want a final solution to the immigration problem.

[blurbleblurble]

Oh yes and he's not acting alone. The merry band of misanthropes have all but written out their intentions explicitly. And it doesn't appear just to be immigrants they wish this stuff on.

People have been worrying about "ecofascism" well then why aren't you concerned about an administration whose policy is measles outbreaks for the misinformed of their constituency? Whose health minister is a rich environmental lawyer who just so happens to be a huge fan of letting disease rip?

[dpkirchner]

I should have said "truly solved their stated problem", or "truly achieve the results they claim they want".

[wombatpm]

They are serious now, but eventually Pournell’s Iron Law of Bureaucracy comes into play. Those who believe in the organization will take over from those who believe in the mission.

[aprilthird2021]

It's also an enormous waste of money, which this admin loves to do. Billions to Israel, $40B to Argentina, $1T+ to bomb boats in the Gulf of Mexico, waste waste waste everywhere and send the bill to the average American, whose economic prospects haven't improved

[rukuu001]

The theatre is also there for the immigrants (or whatever undesirable that's being targeted).

It has a chilling effect on what people say and do.

You'll notice the same effect in other states that have armed people who turn up unexpectedly to make people disappear.

[wsatb]

Their reasoning for deploying the Texas National Guard to Chicago was because they claim a rebellion has started. They are consistently provoking citizens and lying about it. The courts have dismissed this due to the ridiculousness of it, but they continue to agitate. I don't think it's all for show, they're seeking a violent response so they can deploy the military.

[votepaunchy]

Note that the courts have split on the deployment of national guard troops so the issue is destined for the Supreme Court.

[potato3732842]

This. It's like the environmental people going off half cocked screeching about how random petty developments needs more green space in their site plans (while invariably screeching out the other side of their mouth about how the decreased density of stuff makes it less walkable) all while the DuPont or the .gov or some university or whoever has got their engineers and lawyers and whatever to lay out exactly why the thing they're doing is "fine" even if it's worse than whatever the little guys are being prevented from doing.

You can't solve the problem at the "just regulate the employers" level because it invariably turns into a tighter regulatory capture further enriching the incumbents. Any reform will necessarily increase the competitive advantage of the current winners because they are the ones in a position to shape it.

[mattmaroon]

I think it’s more to scare immigrants with pleasing the base being icing on the cake. Stephen Miller is genuinely anti-immigrant. And anecdotally, it is working. Ask any flight attendant on an international route.

They want people to stop coming here, and the threat of being sent to some torture camp in the third world won’t deter a Haitian (whose daily life already meets that description) but it will deter people from less atrocious locations.

[istajeer242]

> Stephen Miller is genuinely anti-immigrant.

I don't know much about him but aren't his grand parents Belarusians who came over to the US?

[js2]

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/08/13/stephen-m...

[pengaru]

As an american, unless you're descendant from native americans, your ancestors are immigrants... I don't think it's worth pointing out. Most anti-immigration americans obviously aren't native americans.

pulling up the ladder behind you isn't a new concept

[johnnyanmac]

In my ancestor's defense, they didn't get much choice on emmigrating here. It'd be truly poetic if they tried to forcefully deport me because they can no longer use me as free labor on the fields.

[wahnfrieden]

As Vincent Gallo put it recently re: federal debt:

> The USA can tolerate one of these two things. A system of no welfare, no social services, no socialized medicine, food or housing with open borders. OR. No open boarders and highly limited, highly controlled, assimilating immigration policy. We cannot have both. When the USA had unlimited immigration over 100 years ago, we did not have Government supporting immigrants with welfare, medical services, housing, food etc.

I don't agree with Mr. Gallo here - I'm just sharing what a popular RW response is on this.

[WarOnPrivacy]

> I'm just sharing what a popular RW response is on this.

The policy in my red state is to spend public funds to treat unliked immigrants as harshly as possible, deny social welfare to citizens in need and prioritize gov resources for admin loyalists. At least it is now that courts are sufficiently captured.

[tbossanova]

What does “no open borders” mean here? I’ve seen this term used but I don’t quite get it. Surely it can’t mean completely closing the borders? I.e. literally nobody can enter the country, ever.

[snickerbockers]

Ive always been ashamed of all the genocidal massacres and forced relocations we did to the native americans but its not in any way accurate to compare establishing a colony to immigration; they came here to create a new society not to live amongst the existing civilizations. The way they did so at the expense of the civilizations already living here is abhorrent and shameful but its also in no way comparable to illegal immigration.

To the extent that it is comparable we would be absolutely justified in regulating immigration because the implication would be that the same thing that we did to the native americans is going to happen to us.

Its also not in any way reasonable to use the sins of the distant ancestor to delegitimize the nation's right to self-determination. Even if i accept your premise that my ancestors are comparable to immigrants i myself am not. If the argument is that the nation has no rights to control its own borders because that would constitute some sort of "generational hypocrisy" that would also mean we have an obligation to accommodate slavery and genocide because our ancestors committed and benefitted from both of those.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

>As an american, unless you're descendant from native americans, your ancestors are immigrants.

How'd that work out for those native americans again? Maybe I'm a little reluctant to let things play out the way it did for them.

[ryan_lane]

Japan now has Kimi Onoda as Minister in Charge of Foreign Nationals and Immigration, and she's an immigrant herself, but her stance on immigrants is pretty hardline.

These people aren't anti-immigrant because of issues with immigration. They're anti-immigrant because they're hateful.

[johnnyanmac]

Japan is truly impressive on taking an anti-immigration stance because they have numbers already that would be the dream of other countries pushing such perspectives. Off the top of my head there's 0.3% immigration.

It's truly saddening that such a stance can still work when it's likely the average citizen will not encounter an immigrant in their day to day life. a million immigrants is not threatening the jobs of 300m Japanese people.

[mitthrowaway2]

In Japan, the popular sentiment on immigration tends to be grouped together with tourists and temporary foreign workers as a single category: foreigners. This is perhaps understandable but unfortunate, because tourists often are very visible and tend to make a bad impression, as most haven't studied the language or learned the numerous behaviour expectations. Bad experiences with tourists creates hostility towards immigrants, who are few and mostly do work hard to integrate and behave well.

[goykasi]

That is mostly correct; immigrants account for about 3% of a total 123mil population. Your point does stand, but we are quite visible in Japan -- especially in Tokyo.

You are correct that we do not threaten jobs either. A large majority of the foreign population is working low/unskilled jobs. Generally, the native population is not wanting those jobs.

[snickerbockers]

Does the 0.3% figure include the massive US military presence? IDK if they count as "immigrants" under the strict definition of the term but most people would consider them immigrants and that might be where a lot of the anti-immigrant sentiment comes from. I would be very surprised if the total amount of immigrants in Japan when including foreign armed services and their family members is a mere 3/10 of a percent.

They get blamed for a lot of crime; idk if that's true or not but it probably is, in part because American culture has less respect for authority, in part because American culture has more respect for individual liberties, and in part because any time you have a large enclave of foreigners (regardless of where they come from or which host nation they're in) they always end up committing more crime than the native population. They also get blamed for driving up prices in the real-estate market (this is definitely true, the US Navy owns 20% of Okinawa).

Blaming "immigrants" instead of specifically blaming the US military is also very convenient for both the US and Japanese government because both governments are largely in-favor of continuing the status quo so it's not surprising that politicians would obfuscate the source of the problem by blaming immigrants as a whole.

[totetsu]

Rather than necessarily hateful (but not excluding that), whats happening here seems like brazen discursive manipulation for gain of political power at expense of a minority of the population. Power in Japanese society is in large part built on calculating and self serving behaviour, without any real integral morals or values.. so politicians are seeing this stuff work overseas, and know they can get away with it too now.

[JuniperMesos]

Seems like Onoda's situation is that she was born in the United States to a white American father and a Japanese mother, and the father abandoned the family and the mother moved back to Japan when Onoda was extremely young. So she has almost entirely grown up in Japan but technically had US citizenship because of US birthright citizenship laws until she deliberately gave it up; and of course is visibly half-white. It wouldn't surprise me if part of her personal anti-immigration stance was grounded in anger and sadness about her non-Japanese father abandoning her and her mom.

[enieslobby]

Please provide evidence for Kimi Onoda being "hateful". She is 100% culturally Japanese, and even speaks English with an accent. This is different from immigrants who don't know the basic cultural norms of a country and have integration issues.

[forgotoldacc]

She had American citizenship until recently. She's overcompensating by larping as a native when she isn't. She was intentionally picked to be a token foreigner to lead the anti-immigration policy of the new administration, just like the US's regime can say "You can't call us far right! That Stephen Miller guy's Jewish!" They love their token minorities since it's an easy counterpoint that they think proves they're angels with good intentions, and unfortunately, half of any given country will completely believe a government that uses minorities for that purpose.

[khuey]

> and she's an immigrant herself

Not really. Her mother is Japanese and they moved back when she was one year old.

[Fnoord]

We had Dilan Yeşilgöz here in NL, minister of justice and leader of the liberal party VVD (right wing). She's an immigrant, born in Ankara, of Kurdish ancestry. She lied about immigrant subsequent travelers (which she is herself!) being a huge issue, and the government fell because of this issue. Turns out it is 400 people per year. I don't know what it is. Self-hate? Rules for thee, not for me?

[Geezus_42]

Hey now, we don't need no fancy logic 'round here. /s

[array_key_first]

ICE is not just performative bullshit. It's a display of authoritarian power and yet another branch of our government mobilized against the US people. As this article highlights, it's an excuse for surveillance. Of citizens, mind you.

[jonway]

normalize adversarial face paint, make up, and apparel.

Silver linings…

[Klaster_1]

Only works until that's no longer legal, see face coverage laws in various countries.

[drivingmenuts]

That performance may backfire, since some of the big supporters are agriculture businesses that rely on illegal immigrants to survive. Mass deportations of the type ICE seems to want will put a lot of those businesses out of business. I'm sure someone up in Washington thinks that poor Americans will step in to fill the gaps, but when it's been tried before those assumptions failed, badly.

I've seen some conspiracy theories that RFK, Jr, et al, want to start labor camps for autistic kids and just about anyone else his bunch can get tagged as defective or deficient or whatever, but I don't think that's going to work out like someone hopes it will.

[intended]

Nothing will backfire.

A Reuters poll on the White House demolitions had a 63% approval for one question and a 40% approval rating for another question - from Republican voters.

As long as there exists a content economy on the right that does’t have to pay their dues to reality, you will not stop a political machine which is based upon fantasy.

The only thing that will cut through the noise is a recession, because that cannot be spun. Even then - that would just be a speed bump; eventually the recession will pass.

[dboreham]

Short term pain for long term gain. Locker room economics.

[johnnyanmac]

>when it's been tried before those assumptions failed, badly.

Turns out Americans don't want to move out to rural areas to be paid minimum wage to do hard farm labor. Who knew?

That's the only real upside to this gig economy. Their competition isn't just flipping burgers, but anyone who has a car that can sign up to an app to make some quick cash.

[BobaFloutist]

Sub-minimum wage, agricultural work is exempt from minimum wage. It makes me so mad.

[SubiculumCode]

I think you'll find that ICE goes to cities, not to the tiny farm towns where most of the field workers stay at. Farmers don't want ICE screwing up harvests, and the admin wants a more visual approach that comes with focusing on cities like LA and Chicago, not places like Seville CA.

[pseudalopex]

The plan is more and more exploitable temporary migrant workers evidently.[1][2]

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20251008104110/https://prospect....

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdWrHb8b-c0

[isolay]

Not to forget they can use the performative bullshit to lay grounds for a paramilitary GeStaPo. ICE as it is already attracts all the wrong character types.

[cool_man_bob]

I’ve seen Trumps buddy’s (the inhuman lawnmower) big company appear on jobs.now posting for general midlevel dev positions. These people are liars and it’s so painfully obvious.

I’ve seen more people realize this since his Trump started beefing with Massie, but they still glaze him so hard as to not offend, that it’s basically meaningless.

[enieslobby]

Which companies employ undocumented workers at scale?

[grumio]

Uline https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/12/uline-trump-...

[shit_game]

Your comment is not considering the possibility of ICE being used as a secret police force under the guise of enforcing immigration. There are strong indicators of this being the case.

[popalchemist]

It's not even a question, that is objectively and observably what is happening, and they even admit it.

[verisimi]

Everyone is a conspiracy theorist now.

[lesuorac]

ICE is just filling the role of the bureau of corrections under Trump1.

It was a bit weird for corrections to be arresting people in DC but a lot less weird for ICE to do it.

[burningChrome]

>> a secret police force under the guise of enforcing immigration.

Isn't that role of ICE? To police and enforce immigration? Doesn't ICE stand for "Immigration & Customs Enforcement"?

What am I missing here?

There is no need for a "secret police" when that is the intended, declared and funded function of their organization.

[tsimionescu]

The point is that ICE has been given a mandate to ignore any notion of due process in their handling of immigrants, very visibly and officially. This allows them to deport anyone they want, including American citizens who get on the bad side of the regime, by just claiming that the person is an illegal immigrant and they don't have time for looking at silly papers like a birth certificate.

So ICE, is in fact being shaped into a secret police that can be used to punish anyone speaking against the regime, under the guise of being a brutal anti-immigration force.

[dialup_sounds]

Not to pull the Godwin lever, but the German SS went from being security guards to overseeing the entire national police force to running gas chambers in about 10-15 years. The function of an organization can change over time. The purpose of a system is what it does.

When a domestic law enforcement agency is spending 600% more year-over-year on weapons to point at people in frog costumes it's reasonable to wonder if that may reflect a de facto change in that organization.

[popalchemist]

Are you not an American? (Giving you the benefit of the doubt here)

In America, immigration enforcement is not a criminal issue but a civil issue. So the proper (as in, according to the laws and norms of the last many decades) and appropriate channels through which the enforcement of immigration is meant to be resolved is the courts. The current usage of ICE as a gestapo is literally illegal (it deprives "suspects" of due process and civil/human rights), in violation of Geneva conventions, and so on.

Furthermore even if we accept the blatantly immoral and illegal idea that federal agents should be able to break and enter into homes and kidnap, traumatize, and traffic people without the slightest pretense of legal justfiability (warrants etc), the fact is that they are not even attempting to choose people by any discernable metric other than their skin color. So it is objectively not about the enforcement of the law, it is about stochastic terrorism and ethnic cleansing, as that is the only thing their actions consistently demonstrate.

[pandaman]

Can you explain more how you reached the conclusion that the enforcement of immigration is meant to be resolved in courts? Parking is not a criminal issue, does it also mean that I need a court order to tow a car blocking my driveway? Building code is not a criminal issue, does it mean I need a court order to install a power outlet? What about car licensing, do you go to court for new tags or to DMV/whatever is your state agency for that? Insurance? Any regulation, really?

It's exactly because this is not a criminal issue, the due process in immigration does not require court hearing, bails etc. The immigration court is not an Article 3 court, it could as well be named "immigration adjudication department" because it's an Executive office. If you believe you had been wronged in the immigration process then you can try to sue the government for the damages in an actual civil court, but the law does not require the government to sue you in order to enforce the immigration laws.

[popalchemist]

Thanks for outing yourself, fascist.

Your bad-faith argument does not merit a lengthy reply so I will simply say that the way this has been handled for DECADES has been to do so by sending formal notice, having court hearings to determine whether someone should be deported, THEN deporting them. The way things are being done now is the gestapo simply identify people with brown skin (now "legal" in a technical sense due to a corrupt SCOTUS ruling but ACTUALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL and IMMORAL in reality) and shipping them to concentration camps and/or countries they have no relation to, to be used as slave labor in quid-pro-quo arrangements with foreign entities. No due process in all of that equates to cruel and unusual extrajudicial punishment and in some cases, death. NOTE that the lack of due process or even warrants or reasonable search requirements means that this CAN HAPPEN and IS HAPPENING to US citizens - to whom immigration enforcement should never even apply. NOTE that the lack of guardrails granted by SCOTUS that empowers ICE (the "E" stands for enforcement) to act as in lieu of an actual JUDICIAL process.

Next time, try not to be a nazi. All people are equally deserving of basic human rights, and that includes not being racially profiled and rounded up like slave meat for the grinder just because of the color of their skin.

[pandaman]

Next time try to study the topic before making ignorant and false assertions.

[shit_game]

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying; ICE is an already-established organization meant for enforcing immigration law, but it's entirely possible that ICE is being/will be used as a secret police force to attack or dissuade political dissidents of the American right wing while claiming they are only enforcing immigration laws. Many American citizens have already been arrested and even deported by ICE, and the FBI has already been used to intimidate American citizens regarding their political speech. ICE is not supposed to be a secret police force, but it's certainly starting to become one.

[stavros]

You're misreading the sentence: ICE is meant to be "enforcing immigration" but is actually "a secret police force" _disguising_ as immigration police.

"A secret police force" there means "a direct enforcement tool for whatever the oligarchy wants to do, legal or not".

[ratelimitsteve]

POSIWID

instead of assuming we want to stop illegal immigration and then asking why we don't do the obvious thing that would accomplish that goal (eliminating the incentive to hire illegally by punishing companies that do it such that it's not worth it on the balance sheet), look at what the situation actually is and ask yourself why people would want that. The situation right now is that there's a near-endless supply of labor that is 100% exempt from any and all labor protections by dint of if they complain the boss can just call immigration, who will disappear the laborers but not punish the company in any way. The occasional disruption due to unanticipated ice intervention is well worth the cost of being able to pay your laborers sub-minimum wage and not being responsible for workplace injuries or human rights violations.

[tracker1]

The issue there is a lot of stolen identities and use of falsified or otherwise fake paperwork to obtain such employment. Then, you get people in positions to aid others to come into that organization illegally. It may not be direct leadership within a company, but I do think plenty of them turn a blind eye to it.

This is where reporting and raid events from ICE come into play. That said, I'd like to see plenty of organizations actually have their leadership held accountable. The East Palestine, Ohio train derailment for example should have seen corporate executives and board members find their personal finances at risk because of the damage caused for example. The US has a very poor history of ever holding company executives accountable in general. "Too big to fail."

[_yb2s]

There is zero genuine interest here in dealing with illegal immigration issues, it’s just a very thin veil over state sponsored KKK style white supremacy terrorism. Videos all over the Internet show them violently attacking and terrorizing hispanic looking people with no concern for if they are citizens or not. At the Wilder raid in Idaho they were shooting children with rubber bullets, and zip tying them to watch as they brutally beat their (mostly US citizen) parents in front of them. At the same time you have the administration actively encouraging white immigration from South Africa.

[righthand]

Right instead they want the flow to continue so they can create a private prison system filled with immigrants. So private business men can profit. That's really it. It's not about fixing immigration.

[burningChrome]

>> Right instead they want the flow to continue so they can create a private prison system filled with immigrants.

How does this make sense when cities and states have openly declared themselves "sanctuary cities" for illegal immigrants?

How does this work when so many of the prisons are already overflowing? So much so, judges and prosecutors are not capable of sending more people to prisons and instead use diversion programs, down charging, or dismissing more serious crimes to charge these people with lesser crimes specifically in order to avoid jail time? What about states like Minnesota that continually deviate from sentencing guidelines and allow people convicted of crimes to spend the majority of their sentence out of prison? Minnesota isn't the only state that does this either, its just in the top five who do this.

The evidence would overwhelming appear to directly contradict this theory.

[DoctorOW]

You're ignoring some pretty crucial evidence about this administration, which is that:

A) They're building more prisons specifically to fill with immigrants

B) Sentencing trends don't really affect immigrants who are denied due process.

[burningChrome]

>> A) They're building more prisons specifically to fill with immigrants

Correction: They're building more prisons specifically to fill with ILLEGAL immigrants. The vast majority of whom have committed crimes while here.

If you have a problem with criminals being put in jail then you have a much bigger problem with your moral compass.

[nobody9999]

Those in the US without documentation (a valid visa, green card, citizenship, etc.) are not criminals. The vast majority are folks who overstayed their visas. Doing so is not a crime. It's a civil tort. That's the law in the US.

Why are you advocating breaking the law by treating non-criminals like criminals?

[gdilla]

no kidding. But what assuages white fragility more? This is what they voted for.

[mindslight]

Dear Leader has already been talking about instituting some kind of program to formally permit cheap imported labor in "critical" industries like farming, construction, and landscaping. And why would the regime ever want to fix any root causes? Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy applies to autocracies as well. The Republican party has been drumming up support on this bogeyman for decades. Remember when there was a bipartisan immigration bill up for vote before the election and Tramp insisted that it be killed? That's the fundamental dynamic right there - their cultists crave human suffering, not effective policy.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

> Enforcement on businesses hiring non legal workers

How do you imagine such an enforcement effort would proceed? Paint me a picture please. Illustrate a hypothetical example, just one company. What would really happen is that you'd check these businesses, and all the paperwork's in order. Social security numbers for everyone (even if those aren't their own). Without probable cause though, wouldn't even get that far, would they? They'd need that for the search warrants... not that judges are very agreeable to signing those, not when they tend to help illegals flee out the back door of the courthouse so that ICE won't wait at the front door grab and deport them.

>We are not fixing the root cause here even if you believe that immigration is bad for the country.

Sometimes all you can do is treat the symptoms.

[Larrikin]

Use the existing social security verification system, 5x fines median salary per year of suspected employment. Assume the worker has only worked for one employer for their entire time in the US or since 18 if there is no other verifiable evidence of employment.

It would fix the "problem" of all American workers who fear their job can be taken away by someone who doesn't speak the language, possibly has little education, because a large company thinks it's more profitable to hire them illegally. Nobody actually cares if someone hires their cousin at the family owned restaurant that sends money back home to his family.

But the goal actually is to have a section of society scared to report employer abuses and willing to work below minimum wage. The farmers in Iowa want the cruelty in Chicago. There was a tiny bit of deportation raids in red states at the beginning because of racism, but that was shut down quick.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

>Use the existing social security verification system, 5x fines median salary per year of suspected employment.

You explain how to punish them, not how to determine that they deserve punishment. This fixes absolutely nothing. "Social security" won't find anything, because everyone working for those businesses has a social security number (even if it's not their own). To determine those are fake or misused, the government would have to get access to the deep HR paperwork, which would require search warrants and subpoenas, in other words, it would require "probable cause". That isn't going to happen.

>But the goal actually is to have a section of society scared to report employer abuse

Yeh, probably. But nothing you've described could help to change that circumstance.

[Larrikin]

>You explain how to punish them, not how to determine that they deserve punishment. This fixes absolutely nothing. "Social security" won't find anything, because everyone working for those businesses has a social security number (even if it's not their own). To determine those are fake or misused, the government would have to get access to the deep HR paperwork, which would require search warrants and subpoenas, in other words, it would require "probable cause". That isn't going to happen.

E-verify has existed for more than a decade. Social security card + your name on another form of official identification like a license or passport. It comes back whether they are valid and match. Its literally a plot point in Superstore. You're describing a problem that only exist when the employer willingly bypasses the system, like in Superstore.

If the DMV has issued a driver's license with the fake name thats the problem of another agency and someone there has committed a fireable offense or crime since there has been large pushes across the country since the 9/11 hijackers to lock that down.

[sixothree]

Are we really deporting people or just putting them to work in labor camps as has been reported.

[FridayoLeary]

I can't understand it. It was a huge story that hyundais entire workforce of 500 were illegals, but i have heard nothing about hyundai facing any consequences for blantantly disregarding the law. That also goes for US companies to be clear, but that was jst the first case that opened my eyes.

[neither_color]

Because Hyundai was not hiring 500 illegals, that is completely false. Everyone who got deported is allowed to return under the same visas they were on before. They were not allowed to stay without being ejected first because it would have made the current admin and the frozen water gang look really bad at a time where they're trying to establish a reputation as a fair and just law enforcement agency carrying out the mandate of the will of the people. If anything, the shot callers at the frozen water gang should have faced consequences but they didn't and they won't.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-will-allow-south-kor...

[themafia]

It's not "completely false."

> South Korean companies have been mostly relying on short-term visas or a visa waiver program called the Electronic System for Travel Authorization, or ESTA, to send workers needed to launch manufacturing sites and handle other setup tasks, a practice that had been largely tolerated for years.

It sounds to me like they had relied on a grey area. The most obvious conclusion is that pressure from the top down in ICE caused their agents to "hunt around" and look for "big arrests." When political pressure from South Korea mounted they had to reverse themselves.

[rcxdude]

Short-term visas might be entirely appropriate for someone who's going to be working in the country for a short time to set something up. I've worked under one myself (You usually need to justify why someone already in the country couldn't do it, but "I designed the thing and literally no-one in your country has seen one before" tends to work). visa-waiver programs like the ESTA generally are not: they're mainly for tourism, conferences, and business/sales meetings, and the latter can get a little blurry depending on how much you are demoing something, but if you're doing actual work and you're being paid directly or indirectly by a US company you're probably not covered (which surprises a lot of people, and there's often stories of people getting kicked out of the country for relatively small pieces of 'work').

Either way, if these were actually workers in the country temporarily and in good faith to set up manufacturing, then it would neither seem to be a particularly good crackdown on illegal immigration nor encouraging manufacturing to be set up in the US.

[dboreham]

It's the USA (collectively) that's in the wrong here. You can't both beg a Korean company to build and start up a battery factory in your country and not provide any mechanism for the people needed to make that happen to be present in your country.

[burningChrome]

>> Because Hyundai was not hiring 500 illegals, that is completely false.

The entire article you posted just referenced short term visas after the raid and said nothing other than the nationals who were arrested were flown home. The article spent less than a sentence with what OP posted:

The announcement came weeks after South Korea flew home more than 300 of its nationals who had been detained in a massive immigration raid at a battery factory being built on Hyundai’s sprawling auto plant campus near Savannah, Georgia.

From September when the raid happened:

"This was not an immigration operation where agents went into the premises, rounded up folks and put them on buses," Steve Schrank, the special agent in charge of Homeland Security Investigations in Atlanta, said at a news conference on Friday.

"This has been a multi-month criminal investigation where we have developed evidence, conducted interviews gathered documents and presented that evidence... in order to obtain a judicial search warrant," Schrank added.

He said it was "the largest single-site enforcement operation in the history of homeland security investigations".

"These [workers] are people that came through with Biden. They came through illegally."

Some 475 people who were in the country illegally or working unlawfully were detained in the operation, immigration officials said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj6xe5d6103o

>> frozen water gang

>> the current admin and the frozen water gang

Why do you have a problem using the term ICE??

[neither_color]

From the article:

>The statement was consistent with earlier remarks by South Korean Foreign Minister Cho Hyun, who, after traveling to Washington to negotiate the workers’ release, said that U.S. officials had agreed to allow them to return later to complete their work.

You dont suddenly allow to return someone who was justifiably deported, regardless of what the agent in charge said in the immediate aftermath at a press conference.

[pengaru]

those weren't undocumented workers