[burningChrome]

>> a secret police force under the guise of enforcing immigration.

Isn't that role of ICE? To police and enforce immigration? Doesn't ICE stand for "Immigration & Customs Enforcement"?

What am I missing here?

There is no need for a "secret police" when that is the intended, declared and funded function of their organization.

[tsimionescu]

The point is that ICE has been given a mandate to ignore any notion of due process in their handling of immigrants, very visibly and officially. This allows them to deport anyone they want, including American citizens who get on the bad side of the regime, by just claiming that the person is an illegal immigrant and they don't have time for looking at silly papers like a birth certificate.

So ICE, is in fact being shaped into a secret police that can be used to punish anyone speaking against the regime, under the guise of being a brutal anti-immigration force.

[dialup_sounds]

Not to pull the Godwin lever, but the German SS went from being security guards to overseeing the entire national police force to running gas chambers in about 10-15 years. The function of an organization can change over time. The purpose of a system is what it does.

When a domestic law enforcement agency is spending 600% more year-over-year on weapons to point at people in frog costumes it's reasonable to wonder if that may reflect a de facto change in that organization.

[popalchemist]

Are you not an American? (Giving you the benefit of the doubt here)

In America, immigration enforcement is not a criminal issue but a civil issue. So the proper (as in, according to the laws and norms of the last many decades) and appropriate channels through which the enforcement of immigration is meant to be resolved is the courts. The current usage of ICE as a gestapo is literally illegal (it deprives "suspects" of due process and civil/human rights), in violation of Geneva conventions, and so on.

Furthermore even if we accept the blatantly immoral and illegal idea that federal agents should be able to break and enter into homes and kidnap, traumatize, and traffic people without the slightest pretense of legal justfiability (warrants etc), the fact is that they are not even attempting to choose people by any discernable metric other than their skin color. So it is objectively not about the enforcement of the law, it is about stochastic terrorism and ethnic cleansing, as that is the only thing their actions consistently demonstrate.

[pandaman]

Can you explain more how you reached the conclusion that the enforcement of immigration is meant to be resolved in courts? Parking is not a criminal issue, does it also mean that I need a court order to tow a car blocking my driveway? Building code is not a criminal issue, does it mean I need a court order to install a power outlet? What about car licensing, do you go to court for new tags or to DMV/whatever is your state agency for that? Insurance? Any regulation, really?

It's exactly because this is not a criminal issue, the due process in immigration does not require court hearing, bails etc. The immigration court is not an Article 3 court, it could as well be named "immigration adjudication department" because it's an Executive office. If you believe you had been wronged in the immigration process then you can try to sue the government for the damages in an actual civil court, but the law does not require the government to sue you in order to enforce the immigration laws.

[popalchemist]

Thanks for outing yourself, fascist.

Your bad-faith argument does not merit a lengthy reply so I will simply say that the way this has been handled for DECADES has been to do so by sending formal notice, having court hearings to determine whether someone should be deported, THEN deporting them. The way things are being done now is the gestapo simply identify people with brown skin (now "legal" in a technical sense due to a corrupt SCOTUS ruling but ACTUALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL and IMMORAL in reality) and shipping them to concentration camps and/or countries they have no relation to, to be used as slave labor in quid-pro-quo arrangements with foreign entities. No due process in all of that equates to cruel and unusual extrajudicial punishment and in some cases, death. NOTE that the lack of due process or even warrants or reasonable search requirements means that this CAN HAPPEN and IS HAPPENING to US citizens - to whom immigration enforcement should never even apply. NOTE that the lack of guardrails granted by SCOTUS that empowers ICE (the "E" stands for enforcement) to act as in lieu of an actual JUDICIAL process.

Next time, try not to be a nazi. All people are equally deserving of basic human rights, and that includes not being racially profiled and rounded up like slave meat for the grinder just because of the color of their skin.

[pandaman]

Next time try to study the topic before making ignorant and false assertions.

[popalchemist]

I see you couldn't be bothered to even attempt an argument. It's clear from your comment history you're a bootlicking ICE apologist.

So transparent.

[shit_game]

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying; ICE is an already-established organization meant for enforcing immigration law, but it's entirely possible that ICE is being/will be used as a secret police force to attack or dissuade political dissidents of the American right wing while claiming they are only enforcing immigration laws. Many American citizens have already been arrested and even deported by ICE, and the FBI has already been used to intimidate American citizens regarding their political speech. ICE is not supposed to be a secret police force, but it's certainly starting to become one.

[stavros]

You're misreading the sentence: ICE is meant to be "enforcing immigration" but is actually "a secret police force" _disguising_ as immigration police.

"A secret police force" there means "a direct enforcement tool for whatever the oligarchy wants to do, legal or not".