[em-bee]

The biggest problem with public school is school size and class size

the montessori method can handle larger class sizes specifically because of the way it is designed. in other words, large class sized are an even better argument for why the montessori method should be used.

[sgc]

I have experience with Montessori, and I love the system. But it doesn't work for everybody. The Montessori educators I have known were open about the common situation where about 1 in 20 kids just do not learn with the lack of structure - they never become self-starters. In a public Montessori with large class sizes, there had better be a very clear plan of how to help those kids. We started our kids in Montessori and switched to Waldorf because my eldest really needed more structure, and my wife didn't want to try again.

When we transitioned our charter Waldorf to a public Waldorf, the kids experiencing it for their first year absolutely thrived. I would love to see both systems expand significantly in the public space, and have educators with enough savvy to help kids find their best place.

I think that even a more traditional school system can be totally healthy, and should stay part of the school mix. I have seen it work out relatively well in other countries. It just doesn't work when run like a for-profit prison.

[solfox]

PLEASE do your due diligence before considering Waldorf for your kids.

I'm not saying that kids cannot have a good experience at a Waldorf school, or that all their educational ideas are bad. Just that once you children have been there for a couple of years, you learn some very disturbing truths about the organization. It's not an education institution as much as it is a religious organization - your children WILL be taught hymns about god and angels in class. The teachers will not admit to this. They will be taught from the original lessons of Steiner, who had some rather unconventional pseudo-scientific ideas (even for his day). This is coming from a dad who had his kids at Waldorf for three years, and I'm so glad I finally got them out - even with the difficult academic transition.

There is plenty of information published about their organization online, and growing awareness worldwide.

[sgc]

My kids went to charter/public Waldorf. I personally am Catholic (not Protestant-adjacent like Waldorf tradition) and even though they do have some weird ceremonies that I am happy the charter Waldorfs don't adopt, my decidedly agnostic-to-atheist siblings sent their kids to private and charter Waldorfs and did not seem to find it so much of a problem. A Dragon Pagaent focused on Saint George and the Dragon (which we did have) is not much of a problem for most I would say. There is a chance you had a bad school. There are problems in every school, but none centered around Waldorf curriculum for any of us, and collectively we have over 50 school years of our kids in several different Waldorfs around the US. Any older pedagogy: Waldorf, Montessori, traditional schooling - they all need improvement. Still, there is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[ScotterC]

My kids are at a Waldorf school currently. I would not be surprised by your experience from what I’ve learned. However I’ve also seen a truly incredible environment at my school and zero cult adherence to Steiner. My best explanation is that each Waldorf school is very much its own island - it seems to be a very federated system.

[solfox]

We enrolled our kids in K thinking the same as you - some light eco-minded spirituality never harmed anyone. Until we started to learn more about their actual philosophy.

From my experience, the teachers and admin will actively disclaim any adherence to the Waldorf / Anthroposophy connections, but I can assure you that if this is truly a Waldorf school (not "Waldorf-inspired"), they are 100% absolutely members of the Anthroposophy organization. I saw teachers actually do things like quickly hide away Steiner's books from their desk when parents would drop in. But do dig a bit deeper into your school if you can - you'll find there is a "college of teachers" and other such secretive meetings, religious Christian-inspired songs being taught to the children (speaking of God and angels from heaven), and more such nonsense at your school.

If you are a Anthroposophist, then by all means, send your kids there. But Waldorf has an international track record[1] of hiding covering their tracks and pretending to be secular when they are anything but. They just don't belong to a religion that you've heard much about [2].

[1] https://waldorfcritics.org/concerns/ [2] https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cult-of-waldorf-sc...