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by eredengrin 239 days ago
> People start making sudo more secure by replacing it with sudo-rs

I would have much preferred if ubuntu went with run0 as the default instead of trying to rewrite sudo in rust. I like rust but the approach seems wrong from the beginning to me. The vast majority of sudo usecases are covered in run0 in a much simpler way, and many of the sudo bugs come from the complex configurations it supports (not to mention a poorly configured sudo, which is also a security hazard and quite easy to do). Let people who need sudo install and configure it for themselves, but make something simple the default, especially for a beginner distro like ubuntu.
2 comments
pepoluan 238 days ago
I don't think run0 uses the same configuration syntax as sudo, so it's a no-go from the start.

sudo-rs can be a drop-in replacement for sudo for at least 95-99% of deployments, without any config changes necessary.

Now the rewrite in Rust is important because it greatly prevents appearance of new, memory-based bugs. Which might inadvertently happen if, say because of fixing a logic bug in one of sudo's more complex usages (and thus, less traversed code path), the maintainer introduced a memory bug.

This resistance, IMHO, is moot anyways since the sudo maintainer himself is in support of sudo-rs and actually helped the project in a consultancy capacity (as opposed to directly contributing code).

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eredengrin 238 days ago
> I don't think run0 uses the same configuration syntax as sudo, so it's a no-go from the start.

This is ubuntu, purportedly targeting ease of use, good defaults, and new Linux users. How many Linux newbies are running with custom sudo configurations? By definition, basically none, and of those who do, it's only for passwordless sudo, which I assume can be trivially recreated in run0. For advanced or enterprise users, it is not difficult to install sudo manually or port their configuration over to run0.

> This resistance, IMHO, is moot anyways since the sudo maintainer himself is in support of sudo-rs and actually helped the project in a consultancy capacity (as opposed to directly contributing code).

I'm not categorically against sudo-rs, but use the tool for the job. If all you need is a simple way to get root privilege, sudo is overkill.

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egorfine 239 days ago
run0 can f off along with the rest of the systemd abominations. sudo worked for decades perfectly well and didn't call for any replacement. run0, like much of the systemd projects and rust rewrites, is a solution in search of a problem.
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eredengrin 238 days ago
> sudo worked for decades perfectly well

Yes, if you ignore all the bugs resulting from features that almost nobody uses.

> along with the rest of the systemd abominations

Not too interested in engaging systemd debates. I have enjoyed using systems with and without systemd, and while I understand the arguments against feature creep, I think you'd be throwing the banana out with the peel to overlook the idea behind run0.

For such a security sensitive piece of software like sudo, reducing complexity is one of the best ways to prevent logic bugs (which, as you mentioned in the sibling, is what the above bug was). If run0 can remove a bunch of unused features that are increasing complexity without any benefit, that's a win to me. Or if you don't like systemd, doas on OpenBSD is probably right up your alley with a similar(ish) philosophy.

For anyone who wants to read more about Lennart's reasoning behind run0: https://mastodon.social/@pid_eins/112353324518585654

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egorfine 238 days ago
I have to reluctantly agree with you on the merit.

However run0 has a property of being a systemd project, which makes it a no go from the inception. And sudo-rs has a similar property of being a virtue signaling project and not a real one. Hence, sudo stays.

> For anyone who wants to read more about Lennart's reasoning

I'm not sure LP is a high-quality source. He has reputation that makes me want to listen to everyone else but him.

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eredengrin 238 days ago
> I'm not sure LP is a high-quality source. He has reputation that makes me want to listen to everyone else but him.

Based off his reputation, I would agree, but after reading a lot of his own words via blog posts, comments in github issues, etc, I wonder how he gained that reputation. He has solid reasoning behind many of his ideas even if you disagree with them, and his comments seem pretty respectful and focused on the technical aspects. Maybe things were different in the past, or maybe some segments of the community just never forgave him for the early buggy systemd implementations, or maybe I just happened to only read things he wrote when he wasn't having a bad day, who knows.

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egorfine 237 days ago
Yeah, but he's coming from a viewpoint that is incompatible with the community at large. "Whatever you did in the past was wrong, fuck you and your opinion, that's how it's gonna be".

So, not interested in his opinions even on merit.

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