[MountDoom]

I always felt that I'm spending too much time in front of a computer, but it was at least somewhat meaningful because I had opportunities to create: write code, blog, and so on.

When smartphones came out, I made a decision early on that I'm just not going to use them in a way that makes my internet footprint follow me everywhere I go. I set them up using a throwaway email account, turned off almost all notifications, and added just family and real-world friends. I think this served me well for nearly two decades. I really only use my phone for maps, photos, and maybe 2-5 messages a day. I honestly never found myself in a situation where I thought to myself, "gosh, I wish I could read my e-mail right now".

But in the past five years, there's been this mounting pressure from app vendors to make sure I can no longer enjoy that. Every other time a friend sends me a web link, I get a popup that detects I'm on mobile and demands I install an app. And they increasingly can't be dismissed, so if I want to view that URL, I need to mail it to myself and open it on a desktop.

If you work for a place that does that, I just hope you stub your toe every morning.

[dripton]

The phone vendors should support not telling the websites you're on mobile. I know they can guess based on resolution and such, but there should be a setting to lie and simulate a desktop. You can't rely on every single website not being run by jerks, but you should be able to buy a phone from a company that cares more about its customers than random jerks.

[jakub_g]

On Android at least, you can toggle "desktop view" in any browser. The UX is crap on some websites, but you can make things work enough to not need the app.

For example I use Opera to browse `facebook.com/messages`. It's a bad UX for writing (somehow it "swallows" some of the written text when you type too fast, or select text and try to overwrite it), but this makes me use it less. Won't ever install FB app on my phone.

[Andrex]

For the first time ever I ran into a web app blocking Desktop Mode on Chrome for Android somehow. (ChowNow) I've seen sites detect it but issue a warning, but this was a full functionality-block.

I was literally using it fine one day, then the next they started saying I need to use the desktop website for menu editing as it's "more optimized."

Dinguses, if I'm manually turning on Desktop Mode I know it's not gonna be "optimized." Just let me get my menu edits pushed goddamnit!

[joquarky]

That sounds like an accessibility issue.

Especially if viewport scaling is disabled.

People with vision impairments need to be able to zoom.

[badc0ffee]

Safari has this setting, but the half dozen times I've tried it, it doesn't work. I suspect you're right that it's because sites just look at the resolution.

[musicale]

The war on web users is ugly.

Surely you don't mean to block our popups, right?

Surely you didn't mean to block our auto-playing video, right?

Surely you would rather use our lousy app rather than the desktop web site you explicitly requested, right?

etc.

[slumberlust]

You can see results of fingerprinting here: https://coveryourtracks.eff.org

[crooked-v]

That's because trying to detect desktop/mobile is itself gross and hacky, as well as hard to work with as a dev. Just doing resolution-based stuff is easier, more reliable, and usually a better experience when devs aren't lazy enough to just leave things out in the smaller views.

[ksymph]

Most browser apps have an option for this, no? Chrome and Vivaldi have it for sure.

[cm2012]

Yes, I use chrome desktop on my phone all the time to browse reddit.

[stronglikedan]

I hope for the sake of UX that you're browsing old.reddit that way.

[swiftcoder]

They do, but a bunch of sites fingerprint you as mobile anyway, and continue to serve the mobile UX

[janwl]

The phone vendors want you downloading and using apps.

[SllX]

Yep! The dickbar in Apple's iPhone Safari app to install an app for the website I'm currently viewing is one of the reasons I no longer use Safari on my iPhone. The fact that there's not even a setting to turn that off is grating, because I have increasingly found that for a lot of websites, given a choice between the website and the app, I vastly prefer the website. Not always, sometimes I prefer the app, but there are some really shitty apps trying to pass themselves off as website replacements.

Also Wikipedia. I don't remember if I particularly disliked the first-party app, but I vastly prefer Wikipedia in a web browser.

[MerlinDE]

There are several useful apps available for iOS that work as Safari extensions handling that kind of stuff. Banish is very useful, as well as Hush. In addition Opener allows you to chose if links shall open the respective app or just stay in the browser.

[SllX]

I appreciate your input and if that were the sole reason I switched browsers that might be enough, but how unreasonable is it that you have to get a 3rd party extension from the App Store to turn off an annoyance that Apple clearly thinks is a feature? Like if they’re going to retain the dickbar, it should be a checkbox in Safari’s settings to turn it off.

[reaperducer]

Also Wikipedia

It's 13:41 on Tuesday, October 14 - Don't forget to give us money!

[xandrius]

You mean Desktop view? Which exists on every browser?

If you want full fooling, install a UA changer on your Firefox mobile, and you're laughing.

[reaperducer]

there should be a setting to lie and simulate a desktop.

Apple has started down this road. All iPads now use desktop user agents.

[thaumasiotes]

> The phone vendors should support not telling the websites you're on mobile.

The browser vendors already do. What do you want to change?

[dripton]

I'd like to see more effective anti-fingerprinting. I know it's just an arms race though.

[techdmn]

It's almost like one of the leading browser developers is also in the advertising business. (To be clear I completely agree, fingerprinting is evil.)

[SamBam]

Presumably better spoofing, so the websites can't tell from obvious tells like resolution.

Firefox on Android seems pretty good on desktop-mode, though: its resolution seems desktop-like, and sites rarely give me the mobile treatment.

[surgical_fire]

> When smartphones came out, I made a decision early on that I'm just not going to use them in a way that makes my internet footprint follow me everywhere I go.

From my social circle, the only such annoying links I get are from Instagram.

I have a deep, almost visceral hatred for the current incarnation of social media, so I go out of my way to not create accounts on those things.

For Instagram and similar shit, I could find some nice downloader bots on Telegram. They typically require you to join some spam channels, but you can join and archive those so you never see that they exist.

[basisword]

>> For Instagram and similar shit, I could find some nice downloader bots on Telegram. They typically require you to join some spam channels, but you can join and archive those so you never see that they exist.

Why is this better than just joining Instagram with a 'ghost' account only used to view things you've been sent. No following or viewing otherwise. Is it just self-control (which I fully understand if it is)?

[surgical_fire]

Because I think social media is inherently evil, and by creating and account (even a dummy one as you described) I would still be feeding a beast that I would rather see dead.

It does help with self control - I intentionally hamstring my ability to see Instagram (and other social media) content by following a slightly cumbersome procedure on Telegram that also makes it impossible for me to search or view any related content. But that is a second-order benefit.

[skydhash]

Meta is trigger-happy with the bans. As for me, things on social media may as well not exist if I can’t view them without an account.

[Gigachad]

Tbh the link problem is common for everyone. I sent a tiktok link to a non tech friend and they couldn’t view it because they didn’t have an account. So I used a downloaded tool to send the video directly. All of the major social media sites are locking out users who aren’t signed in with the app. So you usually just screenshot or use an external tool to rip the content.

[nunodonato]

I simply reply, "I can't see that because it requires an account". Often people give up and don't send me anything... which I'm also fine with, since it's mostly "funny videos"

[nerdsniper]

I don't have any social media accounts - I use rapidsave or faceb.com to download what they linked and send it right back to them every time, as a standalone video rather than a link.

Eventually they realize that's the better way to share it, ask me how I did that, and start doing it themselves.

[basisword]

RE: TikTok. I get links sent frequently and I can view on the web. They make it very difficult though! Muted and autoplay by default and hard to find the unmute button under a web of popups. I think the site isn't responsive either so desktop site on mobile. Also - for some videos at least on TikTok you can download the video via the share button! So not always necessary to use a third party tool.

[wolvesechoes]

> I always felt that I'm spending too much time in front of a computer, but it was at least somewhat meaningful because I had opportunities to create: write code, blog, and so on.

Yeah, we can waste a lot of time in front of the PC, but it at least can be used for creativity and productivity.

[Smart]phones are almost pure consumption.

[ryandrake]

> [Smart]phones are almost pure consumption.

This might depend on one's age/generation. There are tons of internet-connected people today growing up without ever owning (or knowing how to use) a PC at all. They do everything on their phone, including the creative stuff. I didn't believe it either until I saw my friend's high-school age kid writing an entire 15 page writing assignment on her phone. Us PC people are kind of dinosaurs.

[sjw987]

15 pages on a virtual keyboard? So that would have been, what, 100 pages on a computer?

I agree with the parent comment. Smartphones (and tablets) are useless for anything productive. They are entirely consumption machines. If somebody is able to do their job or studies entirely on a smartphone and tablet, it says more about their job and studies than anything.

What vexes me to this day is that you still can't really use something like VS Code on an iPad (you can do it in a browser in a limited way). A tablet, with a wireless Bluetooth keyboard would be a perfect hybrid for creative and productive work. I haven't really found a 2-in-1 that provides the same standard.

[roywashere]

I think this is not too weird? I write text messages all day on my phone. Every holiday I keep a dairy of my travel in a Google doc. While I prefer a proper keyboard I also appreciate the way I can just type some stuff on my phone while in a bus or waiting for a train, or at night in my hotel room. This adds up to significant documents. And then indeed I prefer the writing over mindlessly ‘consuming content’.

[oblio]

They might do that, but if they were educated in PC usage and proficient at it, they would probably do it faster.

And many of them face issues when joining the workforce.

[wolvesechoes]

> I didn't believe it either until I saw my friend's high-school age kid writing an entire 15 page writing assignment on her phone

Hard to imagine, as for me any text longer that 1-2 sentences is a pain on mobile, but maybe indeed it is a matter of conditioning.

[prmoustache]

While you xan be productive, procrastination is right at the corner even on a PC.

For instance some people making music like to have a dedicated, offline computer to do so in lrder to not be tempted to open the web browser for 2 minutes that transformz itself into hours. Same for some writers who try to seek dedicated environments focused on writing and limiting their exposure to the internet.

[walkabout]

Cannot relate. Aside from creating things for computers (code) I do a lot more creation-related stuff with my phone.

I mean, it's covered in cameras and microphones and shit. I can measure things with it. In a pinch, it's a level. Photos for reference at the hardware store. Filming content for most any purpose short of outright pro-level work, great on a phone. Tuner for my instruments, metronome if I want that, good for sheet music (iPad's best, but a phone will do in a pinch, and I'm not gonna carry a laptop around and unfold it and stuff). It fits in my pocket and I always have it, which means it's the only "notebook" I've been able to stick with for writing down ideas. Working with MIDI? Phone or tablet. In the workshop? Phone or tablet. Cooking? Phone or tablet. Working on my car? Phone. Working on the garden or any handyman-stuff around the house? Phone. A laptop would be a downgrade in every case, I don't really have any use for one aside from writing code.

I messed around with stuff like MSPaint as a kid, like everyone else, but these days I'd do that in Procreate on the iPad (and that is in fact what I use for drawing). Even the Pocket version on a phone would be better.

Unless I'm making things for computers an I-device is at least as good, and usually better, for creation-related stuff. Phones are worse for long-form writing, mostly due to the tiny screen, but a tablet's better for that than a laptop, given an external keyboard, because you can place the screen somewhere other than right on top of the keyboard, for better ergonomics.

[sjw987]

The phone size is too limiting for a lot of work, and since most work involves writing in some form, it's a pain in the ass.

A lot of the things you listed are utilities, which I'd agree the phone is great for. If any of the things you've listed are a key feature of your job, for you it works. For the endless office hordes who write emails, code, documents etc. for a living, their only using a smartphone would suggest their job is largely superfluous to me.

A tablet is a happy medium, and a tablet with connectable keyboard is perfect. I wish VS Code (the full version) worked on an iPad. It's that extra bit of real estate.

[MrDarcy]

Not much to add other than I switched to this exact model in 2020 and have had the same pleasant outcome for 5 years now. I’m much more productive and can execute deep work for weeks on end. I remained in the zone on my current project for 4 consecutive weeks. I attribute this to having no distractions. The outcomes produced from remaining in the zone for so long are objectively measurable and high level.

[jcul]

Do you browse hacker news on your phone? Genuine question, I don't use social media but I do spend a lot of time on HN on my phone.

[MrDarcy]

Yes though only 15 minutes a day max at regular break points in the day. Breakfast, lunch usually.

I have one of those parental limit things set for it from 5 years ago. I used to run into the 15 minute limit every day but now I rarely see it pop up.

[ErigmolCt]

Deep work isn't just about focus, it's about staying long enough in that state for the compounding effect to kick in, and it sounds like you've nailed that

[crossroadsguy]

I did all of this and it has served me well — as far as distractions and unwanted comms go. The problem is, now whenever I get that isolated spam (still happens daily or few times a week — just a little) it gets on my nerves, almost like a rage. Because it feels like a violation. For others I see, they don’t even register it.

[nerdsniper]

I feel similarly whenever I carefully set notifications for apps, turning off everything but the most essential ones (like “your driver is arriving” from Uber) and then the corporation uses the only remaining notification channel to send me marketing engagement notifications like “20% off your next 3 rides!!”

I get pretty upset at this. I have a 1 strike policy for most apps. Now even Uber just doesn't get any notifications at all on my phone.

Same for email spam. If I didn’t opt in or if I unsubscribed and still get emails, or if unsubscribing requires more than 2 clicks, every single one gets reporter to Google as spam. If there’s no unsubscribe link I report it to the FTC.

I do it out of principle. If everyone took an absolutist hard line on these things, the world would be a tiny bit better.

[hanlec]

I have been trying to reduce my usage. I still cannot find a way to resist pulling out the phone to: - perform a quick search (browser or ai) - listen to podcasts - listen to audiobook - check the data of the last running or gym session.

Are there alternatives that are as friendly? Or being friendly is the danger here?

[mapontosevenths]

I had to combine two apps to really nail it. I should say that currently I'm in Android.

The first is an app called Bloom (theres another called Brick thats similar) that allows you to lock app access behind a physical NFC card. You lock the app and to unlock you must scan the card.

The second is an app called "freedom" that blocks access to specific websites or apps on a schedule.

I setup Freedom to block the distracting apps and websites during specific hours, then used Bloom to block Freedom, this prevents me from just disabling Freedom when I'm bored. I keep the NFC tag in my car.

Now I use a full featured smartphone that does what I want, and if I actually need access to social media or blocked sites I go to the car to unlock Bloom. I still have all the options, they're just a little more inconvenient.

The added friction of having to physically get up means I usually just don't bother, and Freedoms scheduling and category based blocks mean I can be pretty flexible about what I block and when.

[lm28469]

Disable fingerprint unlock, add a long password, airplane mode unless you actively want to check something, &c. Add as many barriers as possible so that by the time you get through you either forgot why you came for or realised it's not that important

I don't think there are alternatives to what modern phones can do, unless you want to carry multiple dumb devices around (ebook + GPS + mp3 player for example)

[skydhash]

I do carry my ereader with me, because I can read it without glasses (astigmatism) which is hard to do with an lcd panel. Using gps is rarer than using a phone. And it’s even rarer to listen to music on the go (I do have a small mp3 player with 512gb of storage, but it only comes when I have a bag)

[scyzoryk_xyz]

Apps and phones are just so much better for surveillance which I know, duh. Most users simply don't give it any thought and install apps left and right permissions included. The smaller screen real estate is also better for surveillance - smaller number of things on screen equals more granular information on what you're doing precisely.

Extra toe-stubbing wishes for those that are pushing this paradigm into desktop - it's bewildering to me when I hear non-technical folks tell me that an app on desktop needs to come from an app store. Or when web design is being "simplified" and dumbed down really on desktop to facilitate surveillance.

Toe-stubbing-every-morning wishes to a lot of people for contributing to this reality.

[pengaru]

> And they increasingly can't be dismissed, so if I want to view that URL, I need to mail it to myself and open it on a desktop.

Usually I can work around this by toggling "desktop mode" in firefox on android...

[gausswho]

Also on Android you can use Firefox Nightly with uBlock Origin. Go to settings and enable all the Social and Annoyances lists. This should suppress many prompts to download an app.

[ErigmolCt]

You did everything right (set boundaries, kept things intentional) and still the internet crept in through the cracks like water under a poorly sealed door

[at-fates-hands]

I found the one thing that kept me off of my phone was using a degoogled pixel 4XL with Graphene OS on it. So much you can't do on the stock version using F-Droid app store. I really enjoyed until I needed to start downloading a few banking apps that didn't work on it.

So I'm back, but limit what I have on my phone now and its like you said, a constant struggle NOT to download and install something.

[Vinnl]

Somewhat off-topic, but since it might be useful to you and others:

> if I want to view that URL, I need to mail it to myself and open it on a desktop.

I'm signed in to both my Firefox on Android and on desktop, and I can hit the share button while viewing a website and then tap my desktop Firefox under "Send to device". Saves a bunch of steps there.

I'm assuming other browsers can do the same.

[Andrex]

Just a small data point/anecdote: I think the calls to install native apps are actually decreasing now. I don't get spammed for that nearly as much as 2014-2018 or so. Even banks seem to be getting comfortable with making mobile optimized websites now.

But like I said, just my perspective, I don't have any hard data points.

[mrweasel]

> Even banks seem to be getting comfortable with making mobile optimized websites now

At the cost of making an actually useful website for those of us not on mobile. My bank insists on making their website/online banking platform work as if it was their mobile app. The flow of bank transfers, paying bills, writing to your banking adviser is now entirely confusing and feels unsafe. Even a 14" laptop has plenty of space to show you detailed overviews, but no, assume that the user is on a tiny ass screen and show them mostly white-space.

[Andrex]

TBH I've come around on it and I kinda prefer the Fischer Price phone UIs over the sites with random smatterings of 7px microfont, .ASPX pages redirecting eighteen times, and functions hidden two levels deep in floating overflow navs (which don't properly track hover state and disappear when you try getting into a deeper level).

But it's really a pick-your-poison situation. All of it sucks on some level haha.

[homebrewer]

Most of those mobile application nags can be removed by enabling the corresponding filter list in uBlock Origin settings. If you're not using Firefox on the phone, both Vivaldi and Brave have this subscription in their settings (I think it might even be enabled out of the box).

[lunias]

I will not install your app, but I will silently stop using your service. If I'm installing an app then it should presumably offer me some functionality offline, because if I'm online then I can go to your website.

[sjw987]

"Sorry, I don't have [app/website name]. Could you send a screenshot?"

The only other response is to fill your phone with 128 GB of every different social media app that exists.

[southernplaces7]

>If you work for a place that does that, I just hope you stub your toe every morning.

You're too kind. These kinds of nagging parasites should be force fed excrement until they choke on it.