[vmg12]

Collusion in live poker games in casinos is not a widespread problem. There is a problem with poker where people always think they are being cheated every time they lose. If you are playing in a casino in person it is very unlikely you are being cheated. If you are playing in a regulated website online that verifies the identities of the customers it is also unlikely you are being cheated.

The vast majority of people that play poker absolutely suck and think they are being cheated because they lose money very quickly. Most bad poker players would literally be better off playing blackjack.

[sejje]

Bingo.

Played thousands of hours in casinos. Saw some asshole show down cards to someone still in the hand, stuff like that, but never anything I thought was collusion.

Plenty of other angles, though.

[mattmaroon]

A regulated online casino that verifies identity wouldn’t stop a bot. You’d just sign up under your name and use it. If your bot isn’t colluding it would just look to the casino like you’re good at poker.

[vmg12]

The best bots are from cheating rings where the bots are colluding, not from bots that play poker perfectly (which don't exist in any real sense for full ring poker).

[cmeacham98]

Not alone, but presumably the online casino also has some sort of anti-botting measures, and if your bot gets banned you can't re-use your identity.

[razakel]

You'd want to use a friend's identity and a different IP for one of the bots.

[randomNumber7]

Show me your no limit holdem bot for a 9 player table.

Do you think I can't exploit that after buying the history of millions of hands it played on some shady website.

[bluecalm]

Just fyi 6max bots were destroying online $5/$10 games on Party Poker (back then the biggest site) in 2009. That was before public solvers, other algorithmic advancements and huge hardware progress.

[darepublic]

I used to play poker back in the 2000s. The online game was getting harder then and I can only imagine it's gotten worse? Also GTO solvers are a thing now? I don't know what stakes you are referring to but I feel like the overall quality of poker play has never been higher.

[vmg12]

What's true is that people aren't making as obvious mistakes, especially preflop, so you can't make hundreds of thousands just by knowing that Ace King is a good hand that you can go all in with. Anyone can find preflop poker charts and fix part of their preflop game.

Having a poker solver isn't enough. Let's say you play tournament poker, just having a basic understanding of concepts like ICM give you a massive edge. Let's say you take it a step further and understand concepts like "future game" and actually study them using tools, you're edge has expanded further.

There are a bunch of charts out there that tell you what hands to go all in with if you have 15bbs or fewer. None of those charts take into account ICM. Also how do you adjust the charts if your opponents are calling with too many hands? How do you adjust them if they call with too few hands?

Let's say we are just talking about cash game poker, it's not enough to have a solver, you need to understand how to actually study with the solver. People try to use them like a cheat sheet that tells you what to do, not understanding that a slight change to the inputs of the solver can drastically change the output. The purpose of a solver is to understand how different ranges interact at different stack depths on different boards.

ie: Playing 100bbs deep, on a KK3 flop with a flush draw, what hands should i check or bet as the preflop raiser? What happens if that 3 is a 7? What if it's a J? What if it's 33K instead of KK3? What if I'm 200bbs deep instead of 100? What if the opponent calls too much? What if they call too little?

[bluecalm]

>>There are a bunch of charts out there that tell you what hands to go all in with if you have 15bbs or fewer. None of those charts take into account ICM. Also how do you adjust the charts if your opponents are calling with too many hands? How do you adjust them if they call with too few hands?

There are multiple tools on the market that solve preflop all-in game for multiway pots with ICM and more advanced chip utility models. Those are very easy to solve you don't even need a chart (on the fly solving is fast enough on a laptop). You can also solve them with adjustments for certain players.

[cess11]

After a few hands, if you don't know who at the table is the sucker, then it's time to leave.