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by symlinkk 247 days ago
99% of those students were not any more talented than the average US citizen
9 comments

It's not really talent, it's that they don't get scholarships and pay tuition in full. It was basically a subsidy program
Sorry to break it to you, but the average American is quite...let's say, average. That's why they're average, lol. Likewise, the average Chinese. That's why their school system filters out tens of millions of schoolkids from higher education and puts them in trade school early. Same goes for India, Europe, etc.

Gifted, driven kids, the kind who will leave their family and everything they've known, to cross an ocean to study in your country, are a scarce resource.

I'm not saying you shouldn't prioritize locals, but if you want competitive, world-class educational system, you should be open to foreign students and faculty helping to keep your system competitive. It's the same worldwide, whether it's in Singapore's NUS, or Oxford, or Saudi Arabia's KAUST.

But, what do I even know?

There's so few seats at these schools we could fill them with Americans and not notice a difference is my belief. We're talking about single digit acceptance rates where it's probably hard to distinguish students who apply at all.

Also I feel like it's not a good assumption that talented international students that come to top tier universities also have the same western vision of meritocracy and sharing their achievements with the globe.

Why not just stay and bring their gifts to their own country?
because the infrastructure in their home countries likely don't exist. some people are just that much smarter and need such an environment.

Or, there's risk to being in their home country where academic freedom might not really be a thing.

it's like why if you show serious promise in soccer at a young age, you go to Europe as soon as you can - you will be better developed there in a more mature environment as opposed to, say, the USA where you can only get decent coaching in a few major cities, and even then the gulf between the coaching at a top Spanish or English club versus an American one is huge. Or if you show promise in tennis at a young age, you get your ass to Florida as soon as you are able to.

Why not build the infrastructure with their smarts?
The path of least resistance is obviously to go where the infrastructure is.

Also, smarts needed to bootstrap modern infrastructure from scratch with limited resources are different than smarts needed to design a popular app, for example.

Typically smart people arent limited to specific areas of being smart. That's kind of the definition of being smart is figuring things out.

Americans built modern infrastructure with our limited 'average' brains.

Should be simple for actual smart people.

Some of them actually do that. Like when the US expelled Qian Xuesen, the founder of the Jet Propulsion Lab and he went back and built China's ballistic missile and space program. So, yep. It's happened and will continue to happen to different degrees.
this is a great thing nuclear deterrence spread around the world is great because it keeps one country from bullying the rest
I agree with you. We don't even have to imagine: the UK and US were planning preemptive nuclear strikes against the entire Soviet Union before they tested their first nuke.

Operation Dropshot and Unthinkable called for hundreds of nukes and conventional bombs to be dropped on Soviet cities to, "to impose upon Russia the will of the United States and the British Empire."

All in all, I don't even have a dog in the fight, but people like Qian Xuesen won't become retarded if they're expelled from the US. If I remember correctly, something like a third of all top-tier AI researchers are Chinese. If you count all those with an immigration background, they'll be close to 50-70%. They will simply create companies and products that compete and take market share from American companies.

Are Americans - the country that votes out presidents for rising gas prices - willing to make do with a lower standard of living? Because that'd what you'll get when some the world's best innovators are no longer based in your country.

> They will simply create companies and products that compete and take market share from American companies.

Trade and innovation benefits all of mankind. A rising tide lifts all ships. Having multiple countries becoming successful instead of the US simply monopolizing talent would benefit the world.

> Glad Qian Xuesen helped China improve their missile innovation.

Nuclear Deterrence should be spread far and wide so no one bad actor can get into power and bully others.

Yup, that's what they will do now.

Which is indeed a benefit for their countries.

And is a loss for the US.

The brain drain was real and the US was the beneficiary and that may be ending soon.

Not sure what your point is? Are you happy that the US will be worse off than it was before?

I think America will be ok.
Being okay is a lot different from maintaining academic, innovative, and cultural dominance which provides a standard of living many have grown used to.
Are you saying America was a backwater nation until non-european immigrants rescued them?
99% of stats are made up
But personal experience is not. I went to college and was friends with the foreign students. They were average.
We had 'Asian road chaos' every fall where the rich ones would show up with their new Bugattis (edit: Maseratis) having never learned how to drive the thing and much less on the open American roads where you can really let the accelerator loose. They would cause endless crashes.

One or two of poor ones would end up committing suicide in the spring when they flunked out and had spent their entire little farming family's fortune back in some austere rice farming village.

It was quite the sight to see. I want to say they were fairly normal in intelligence, relatively, but the set of incentives for them to perform were wildly different.

> had spent their entire little farming family's fortune back in some austere rice farming village.

Depends on tier of university.

At Harvard, MIT, Stanford, the asian international students are moderately rich (US$10 million+ net worth) from tech or manufacturing businesses.

Holy racism

Fwiw there’s like 1000 Bugattis in the world so you really must have gone somewhere super duper elite! Monaco perhaps?

You must've been pretty busy hanging out with a statistically significant quantity of all of them.
Thats the very definition of “anecdata”. (Anecdotes you mistake for representative data)
But they pay several multiples of money more to study than the average US citizen, take on no debt, and most of the time are studying for advanced technical degrees.

Most Americans are not.

If we want to have top-tier universities, and produce graduates capable of innovating and taking big risk, we need to have universities who are strong in STEM.

If we want to have universities who are strong in STEM, we need to fill up those seats because otherwise without students, there are no classes.

IDGAF where they come from, to be honest.

The average US citizen voted in Trump, so no. You can't listen to his UN speech and go "that's the man to rule my country" if you're not seriously mentally impaired.
Just on the odds this statement is almost certainly incorrect.
You have not met many average US citizens if you really think that is the case
What's your point? That education only belongs to the "talented"? Talented in what way? What good does it do to society that the "non-talented" are not educated?

Also, no source for claim.

Not OP but I infer that they're point is US colleges should primarily serve US citizens, not "talented" foreigners
why do you say that?

I can say, that 99% of those students are much less obese than the average US citizen