[churchill]

Sorry to break it to you, but the average American is quite...let's say, average. That's why they're average, lol. Likewise, the average Chinese. That's why their school system filters out tens of millions of schoolkids from higher education and puts them in trade school early. Same goes for India, Europe, etc.

Gifted, driven kids, the kind who will leave their family and everything they've known, to cross an ocean to study in your country, are a scarce resource.

I'm not saying you shouldn't prioritize locals, but if you want competitive, world-class educational system, you should be open to foreign students and faculty helping to keep your system competitive. It's the same worldwide, whether it's in Singapore's NUS, or Oxford, or Saudi Arabia's KAUST.

But, what do I even know?

[onetimeusename]

There's so few seats at these schools we could fill them with Americans and not notice a difference is my belief. We're talking about single digit acceptance rates where it's probably hard to distinguish students who apply at all.

Also I feel like it's not a good assumption that talented international students that come to top tier universities also have the same western vision of meritocracy and sharing their achievements with the globe.

[the_real_cher]

Why not just stay and bring their gifts to their own country?

[NickC25]

because the infrastructure in their home countries likely don't exist. some people are just that much smarter and need such an environment.

Or, there's risk to being in their home country where academic freedom might not really be a thing.

it's like why if you show serious promise in soccer at a young age, you go to Europe as soon as you can - you will be better developed there in a more mature environment as opposed to, say, the USA where you can only get decent coaching in a few major cities, and even then the gulf between the coaching at a top Spanish or English club versus an American one is huge. Or if you show promise in tennis at a young age, you get your ass to Florida as soon as you are able to.

[the_real_cher]

Why not build the infrastructure with their smarts?

[LPisGood]

The path of least resistance is obviously to go where the infrastructure is.

Also, smarts needed to bootstrap modern infrastructure from scratch with limited resources are different than smarts needed to design a popular app, for example.

[the_real_cher]

Typically smart people arent limited to specific areas of being smart. That's kind of the definition of being smart is figuring things out.

Americans built modern infrastructure with our limited 'average' brains.

Should be simple for actual smart people.

[NickC25]

>Typically smart people arent limited to specific areas of being smart. That's kind of the definition of being smart is figuring things out.

Having worked with everyone over the course of my life from PhDs to construction workers, I'm going to have to hard disagree on this one. Just because someone is gifted in one area, does not mean their intelligence or domain expertise applies everywhere. Domain expertise is a real thing.

It's about maximizing your potential, and being in the best environment to do so. Building up that capacity might sound nice in theory, but in practice, you go where you can to get the best results possible.

[churchill]

Some of them actually do that. Like when the US expelled Qian Xuesen, the founder of the Jet Propulsion Lab and he went back and built China's ballistic missile and space program. So, yep. It's happened and will continue to happen to different degrees.

[the_real_cher]

this is a great thing nuclear deterrence spread around the world is great because it keeps one country from bullying the rest

[churchill]

I agree with you. We don't even have to imagine: the UK and US were planning preemptive nuclear strikes against the entire Soviet Union before they tested their first nuke.

Operation Dropshot and Unthinkable called for hundreds of nukes and conventional bombs to be dropped on Soviet cities to, "to impose upon Russia the will of the United States and the British Empire."

All in all, I don't even have a dog in the fight, but people like Qian Xuesen won't become retarded if they're expelled from the US. If I remember correctly, something like a third of all top-tier AI researchers are Chinese. If you count all those with an immigration background, they'll be close to 50-70%. They will simply create companies and products that compete and take market share from American companies.

Are Americans - the country that votes out presidents for rising gas prices - willing to make do with a lower standard of living? Because that'd what you'll get when some the world's best innovators are no longer based in your country.

[the_real_cher]

> They will simply create companies and products that compete and take market share from American companies.

Trade and innovation benefits all of mankind. A rising tide lifts all ships. Having multiple countries becoming successful instead of the US simply monopolizing talent would benefit the world.

> Glad Qian Xuesen helped China improve their missile innovation.

Nuclear Deterrence should be spread far and wide so no one bad actor can get into power and bully others.

[LPisGood]

> Having multiple countries becoming successful instead of the US simply monopolizing talent would benefit the world

In particular, it is a marginal detriment to the US. That’s why my original comment said this loss is a shame for USA.

[addicted]

Yup, that's what they will do now.

Which is indeed a benefit for their countries.

And is a loss for the US.

The brain drain was real and the US was the beneficiary and that may be ending soon.

Not sure what your point is? Are you happy that the US will be worse off than it was before?

[the_real_cher]

I think America will be ok.

[LPisGood]

Being okay is a lot different from maintaining academic, innovative, and cultural dominance which provides a standard of living many have grown used to.

[the_real_cher]

Are you saying America was a backwater nation until non-european immigrants rescued them?

[triceratops]

Are you saying America was ok taking immigrants only as long as they were European?

[LPisGood]

I think it’s pretty clear that’s not what I’m saying.