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by xpe 263 days ago
>> (me) The NIST report, of course, implicitly promotes ideals of western democratic rule over communist values

> (antonvs) If only that were true.

Using a charitable reading of your comment, it seems you are actually talking about the effectiveness of NIST, not about its mission. In so doing, you were not replying to my actual claim. If you read my sentence in context, I hope it is clear that I'm talking about the implicit values baked into the report. When I write that NIST promotes certain ideals, I'm talking about its mission, stated here [1]:

> To promote U.S. innovation and industrial competitiveness by advancing measurement science, standards, and technology in ways that enhance economic security and improve our quality of life.

This is explained using different words in a NIST FAQ [2]:

> Everything in science and technology is based on measurement. Everything we use every day relies upon accurate measurements to work. NIST ensures the measurement system of the U.S. meets the measurement needs of every aspect of our lives from manufacturing to communications to healthcare. In science, the ability to measure something and determine its value — and to do so in a repeatable and reliable way — is essential. NIST leads the world in measurement science, so U.S. businesses can innovate in a fair marketplace. We use measurement science to address new challenges ranging from cybersecurity to cancer research.

It is clear NIST's mission is a blend of scientific rigor and promotion of western values (such as free markets, free ideas, innovation, etc). Reasonable people can disagree on the extent to which NIST achieves this mission, but I don't think reasonable people can deny that NIST largely aims to achieve this mission.

My take on the Trump and his administration: Both are exceptionally corrupt by historical standards. They have acted in ways that undermine many of the goals of NIST. But one has to be careful to distinguish elected leaders and appointees from career civil servants. We have to include both (and their incentives, worldviews, and motivations) when making sense of what is happening.

[1]: https://www.nist.gov/about-nist

[2]: https://www.nist.gov/nmi

1 comments

> Using a charitable reading of your comment, it seems you are actually talking about the effectiveness of NIST, not about its mission

I'm not talking about NIST in general, just about this report, which most certainly does not, as you claimed, "implicitly promote ideals of western democratic rule over communist values." Quite the contrary: it's a blatant and transparent continuation of the current administration's assault on those Western democratic values.

> It is clear NIST's mission is a blend of scientific rigor and promotion of western values

That was true in the past. You seem to be having difficulty accepting the new reality, even defending it. Which is sad to witness.

>> It is clear NIST's mission is a blend of scientific rigor and promotion of western values

> That was true in the past. You seem to be having difficulty accepting the new reality, even defending it. Which is sad to witness.

First, something you know (or should know): people that disagree with you do not necessarily support your rivals / opponents / enemies. You are incorrect confusing (i) my pushback against your reasoning with (ii) defending Trump.

You've committed many reasoning errors. Sometimes people need very direct (i.e. blunt) feedback from a trusted person. I don't think getting through to you at all. Maybe someone else can and will?

> Quite the contrary: it's a blatant and transparent continuation of the current administration's assault on those Western democratic values.

Generally speaking, I agree the Trump administration is assaulting Western democratic values.

Remember, this is conversation. You are convinced of one way of seeing the NIST report. I recognize your perspective; I see your intensity, but intensity alone does not translate into credibility. Repeating your claims ad nauseam doesn't help.

In my eyes, you have not made a case (much less a good one) for how this particular NIST report is somehow an assault on Western democratic values. Neither have you shown it is a blatant or transparent assault.

If you want to persuade, practice the art of persuasion. I suggest:

- Elaborate, clarify, use good reasoning.

- Explore multiple explanations. Don't put on blinders. Seek the truth wherever it lies.

- Don't oversimplify. Express appropriate uncertainty.

- Use conversation to move towards better understanding.

- Don't misrepresent what others say or believe.