[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

Interesting. Perpetrators suggests a crime. Separately, it suggests that you believe there is a known cause and a source of the malady.

- If true, who, do you believe, the perpetrators are ( be as specific as you think you can be )?

- If true, what do you believe the crime of those perpetrators is ( again, be as specific as you can )?

- If true, who or what is, in your mind, ultimately responsible for the issue that has embroiled both victims and perpetrators?

[foobarian]

Bet you wouldn't be this high and mighty had ICE invaded your town and pulled every resident including your family out of their bed at 3am at gunpoint because "they had credible evidence there was an illegal in one of the houses"

[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

Eh, um, I would personally invite you to the discussion at gp level, where I dismiss this line of argumentation outright. It doesn't do much for me. Honestly, it does not advance your argument either. What I would or would not do is rather irrelevant in a grand scheme of things. However, in aggregate, it would be rather problematic. And it does not appear to be happening at that scale.

Do you know why?

[worik]

> who, do you believe, the perpetrators are

Masked, no ID, claim they are from ICE. Thugs.

> the crime of those perpetrators is ( again, be as specific as you can )?

Assault an kidnapping.

> who or what is, in your mind, ultimately responsible for the issue that has embroiled both victims and perpetrators?

Interesting question: Probably capitalists who want cheap labour and are willing to cut corners to get it

[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

Friend. I would advise you against taking posts you read online as some sort of legally binding advice. It.. is just not a good idea. I will make it simple for you. Either ICE is a federal level entity with some rights and immunities assigned to it or not.

If they are and they do, then kidnapping seems like, at best, a mischaracterization. I don't want to belabor the point, but it sounds like you a have an axe to grind.

<< Probably capitalists who want cheap labour and are willing to cut corners to get it

Interesting indeed. Not your answer, but rather the logical inconsistency it implies. How would removal of illegal aliens result in cheap labor? I suspect you did not think your answer through. May I suggest less reflexive writing?

[worik]

As to the legality of ICE: The law suits are not being heard yet, time will tell

Legal or illegal what they're doing is wrong

As to capitalists and cheap labour: that is what drove the rise in the population of the undocumented community. I was addressing the cause of that problem

The need for a neo-facist to have an "other" to deamonise is what drives ICE

Capitalists and facists do not have perfectly aligned incentives

[mindslight]

In another comment, you said "You want to cry me a river over militarization of police and following the basic rules of engagement, I am all ears". I don't know if that was just a ploy to appear reasonable, but if you really care about that as you purport to then you already know the answers to those questions.

As a libertarian, I've had enough with people feigning condemnation for government/police overreach/unaccountability while writing comments that condone it.

[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

Friend, whether I know or not is not relevant to this discussion. If you were following my conversation with parent then you know the questions were for his benefit, not mine.

<< As a libertarian, I've had enough with people feigning condemnation for government/police overreach/unaccountability while writing comments that condone it.

That is fair. What would you propose to do about this?

[mindslight]

No, don't play coy. OP straightforwardly implied the answers to those questions by the context - the perpetrators are obviously the gang members attacking a building in the middle of a night.

> What would you propose to do about this?

Call out the hypocrisy and the disingenuous invocation of the ideals of liberty, exactly as I am doing here. Your movement often talks of freedom but as soon as dear leader throws you some red meat for your culture war hind brain, you're readily licking boots. It's pathetic.

[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

<< don't play coy.

Hmm?

<< the perpetrators are obviously the gang members attacking a building in the middle of a night.

See.. this is what I find fascinating about this framing. US has a fair amount of various enforcement agencies at federal level. I mean, IRS has a division that has agents walking with guns. ATF messes with people in ways that are problematic and documented ways. FBI does morning raids. No one suggests they are a gang or that they kidnap people.

It is interesting, because the linguistic effort to suggest that ICE ( the linked story had border patrol, which adds interesting wrinkle to OP's line of argumentation ) is not a legitimate arm of US government. If there is something flimsy about this, it is that particular attempt. Their legal status will not change just because you say they 'kidnap' people.

<< Your movement often talks of freedom but as soon as dear leader throws you some red meat for your culture war hind brain, you're readily licking boots.

You assume a lot about me, but would you be so righteous if I told you I am into feet?

[mindslight]

> No one suggests they [IRS, ATF, FBI] are a gang or that they kidnap people.

Wow, seriously. So either you've never read any libertarian or right-wing anti-government discussions, or more likely you're just flinging nonsense at the wall to see what might stick. This is starting to feel like LLM slop.