[kgwgk]

> the order of senses is clear: the Traveller sense comes first, the modern “casual repair” sense comes later and was derived from it.

The order of the senses is clear but different:

The "mender of kettles, pots, pans, etc.," sense come first.

The “gipsy” sense comes later an is derived from it.

The “repair or put into shape rudely or temporarily" - and later "work imperfectly, work in an experimental or meddlesome manner; keep busy in a useless way" - sense also comes from the first one.

[closewith]

The "mender of kettles, pots, pans, etc.," refers to Travelers.

[kgwgk]

[…] is to be considered that genuine Gypsies have often been spoken of as "tinkers" (chaudronniers) on account of the occupation with which they have long been associated ; and that, although there is no known mention of "Gypsies" in the British Islands prior to the fifteenth century, there are many earlier references to "tinkers" or "tinklers," as they are called in Scotland. […] "Tinkler can be traced back to about the year 1200. Tinker and Tinkler were not uncommon titles at that time. […] All these seem to have had fixed abodes, and not to have been of the same itinerant class with which we now associate all tinkers, and which used to require the epithet 'wandering' to distinguish them." […] To the same purpose as the opinion expressed in this last sentence is Crofton's observation made elsewhere, that "all Gypsies may be pedlars, brasiers, or tinkers, but the reverse may not follow."

[ Scottish Gypsies under the Stewarts; David MacRitchie; 1894 ]

[closewith]

Right, so as per your quote, the term referred to Travellers exclusively for centuries before the verb came along.

You are going to great efforts to defend your use of a slur.

[kgwgk]

>> The "mender of kettles, pots, pans, etc.," refers to Travelers.

> Right, so as per your quote, the term referred to Travellers exclusively for centuries

The quote supports what I wrote before:

1) The "mender of kettles, pots, pans, etc.," sense come first.

2) The “gipsy” sense comes later and is derived from it.

What the quote says:

- Tinker was not an uncommon title in the thirteenth century.

- It was used to refer to tin smiths - usually with fixed residence.

- Those tin smiths were not of the same itinerant class with which we now [nineteenth century at the time of the writing] associate the term.

- Tinker used to require the epithet "wandering" to distinguish the "Travellers" specifically.

I have no idea how you may read it as confirming that it never referred to the occupation before adopting by association the second meaning.

[closewith]

> 1) The "mender of kettles, pots, pans, etc.," sense come first.

> 2) The “gipsy” sense comes later and is derived from it.

This is controversial, but even if accepted, that still leaves 4-6 centuries where the term referred exclusively to Travellers before the verb came about directly from that meaning.

[kgwgk]

Tinker as a verb is recorded in the sixteenth century.

And what does "directly from that meaning" mean when it's obviously about the action of mending and not anything else related to the group of people associated with the occupation?

Even assuming that this derived meaning was indeed the primary meaning of the word at the time, which is unclear (let alone the "exclusive" meaning):

https://johnsonsdictionaryonline.com/views/search.php?term=t...

Ti'nker. n.s. [from tink, because their way of proclaiming their trade is to beat a kettle, or because in their work they make a tinkling noise.] A mender of old brass.

---

> Who is Tom Snout?

ChatGPT said:

Tom Snout is a character in William Shakespeare’s play A Midsummer Night’s Dream. He is one of the “rude mechanicals” (a group of Athenian tradesmen) who gather to put on a play—"Pyramus and Thisbe"—to perform for Duke Theseus’s wedding.

Occupation: Tom Snout is a tinker (a repairman of metal household goods, like pots and pans). Role in the play-within-a-play: He is assigned the unusual part of “the Wall,” through which Pyramus and Thisbe whisper their love. He literally has to hold up his fingers to represent a gap in the wall.

Characterization: Like the other mechanicals, he is comically earnest and takes his role very seriously, though the performance ends up being hilariously clumsy. Would you like me to also explain how his role contributes to the comedy of the play?

> Is he a Traveller?

ChatGPT said:

Not in the sense of being a “Traveller” as in a wanderer or member of a travelling people. Tom Snout is just a local Athenian tradesman in A Midsummer Night’s Dream. Shakespeare introduces him as a tinker (someone who fixes household metal goods). He’s part of the group of craftsmen—Bottom, Quince, Flute, Snug, and Starveling—who rehearse and perform the little play for Duke Theseus.

So no, he’s not depicted as a traveller in the story—he’s rooted in Athens, more of a comic “ordinary worker” than a roving character.