[rehitman]

I do not agree with you that they have good intention or have good goals. They know what they are doing, and they are doing it to gain control. I think by saying they have good goals, but they don't know better, we are down playing the danger. They know what they are doing, and they are doing it to have more power over people.

[filoleg]

I agree with you (i.e., I share your belief that the whole "safety" argument is a bold-faced excuse to just gain more control and surveillance power over the population), but I believe that the parent comment was just trying to be extra charitable to those pushing for the bill.

I think it is fair to give the opponent's position (which both you and I believe is in the wrong) a steel-man argument treatment, by assuming the best possible interpretation of their argument (even if they don't imo deserve it, and you don't believe in their stated intent).

The approach makes sense to me, as attacking and debating genuineness of someone's intentions is an endless rabbithole. So if you have an option to decimate their case, all while assuming their stated intent to be truthful and genuine, that's a pretty solid way to actually move the needle on the argument in a desired direction.

[codeptualize]

This! Very well explained.

[AJ007]

They have evil intentions, but they are also idiots. The nature of an authoritarian government is one that requires maximizing control for survival. As a particular country shifts to a more authoritarian government, and those people who enabled dumb ideas fall out of power (right, left, or whatever) those same tools will be used by their political adversaries to control, imprison, or kill them.

Why are they idiots? Because western Europe is not yet authoritarian and thus there is little personal benefit to hasten a slide towards it, there are so many other ways to gain power in a free society. (I wouldn't bet money that Europe will remain free in 25 years.)

There is a secondary problem here -- anything that decreases the information security of European countries hands more power to the US and China (and to a lesser degree other nations with advanced infosec capabilities like Russia and Israel.) If you are European (I'm not) the first thing that should be done is investigate the people pushing this stuff.

[martin-t]

> good intention or have good goals

People need to understand that some people are abusers by nature and mentality, some from birth, some by upbringing. And they crave power.

The sayings like "those who want power rarely deserve it" exist for a reason, except until the last few decades we didn't have a good enough understanding of psychology to explain why. Now we do. Some people have anti-social traits and they should never be allowed in positions of power because they are mentally ill.

Difference is "normal" mental illness like psychosis is harmful to the individual who has it. Anti-social mental illness is harmful to those around them, especially those under them in hierarchical power structures.

[EGreg]

It’s right there in the name: Chat Control. Take them at their word!

Look at Australia’s “hacking” bill. It was about letting the government hack (take over) your account and post as you. The “hacking” referred to ahat THEY would do — to YOUR accounts:

https://www.accessnow.org/surveillance-state-incoming-with-a...

Australians even made a movie about a dystopian future:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJYaXy5mmA8

[skrause]

The name is "Regulation to Prevent and Combat Child Sexual Abuse".

"Chat Control" is not an official term, but a name chosen by critics of the law.

[1oooqooq]

wonder if opposition should first fight for an addendum to correct the title in all those double speak laws, and then fight to curb it.

[frm88]

Wow. That movie. Just wow.

[raxxorraxor]

There needs to be accountablility regardless of intent for policies that affect everyone.

I agree with you though, they know what they are doing and about some implications at least.

I hope most services will just block Denmark though. Any investment in such technologies is a waste and should come to a great cost to developers. In this case Google products in general should be shunned. Not that they were famous for steady support of products instead of quickly killing them.

[softwaredoug]

Everyone thinks they have good goals, and that they are the ones who won't abuse the power given to them. History shows otherwise time and time again.

[hatthew]

> they are doing it to have more power over people

Is there any evidence for this other than vibes?