[spwa4]

As opposed to China, who will probably invade pretty much every Asian country, and the only big unknown is the order. Western China is annexed. Nepal is Annexed. Hong Kong is annexed. Mongolia is 100% under Chinese control. Northwest Pakistan is 95% under Chinese control. Parts of Russia, Afghanistan, Tajikistan and other countries are under Chinese control to a greater or lesser extent, and all those countries have zero hopes of defending against China, and sure as hell can't count on anyone's support. Certainly not their neighbors, or the gulf states, and not the US. The South China sea (including Phillippine, Japanese, Taiwanese territory) is under Chinese control. And the countries' only hope for maintaining independence is the US.

China is an empire. It cannot survive except through expansion so betting it will expand is like betting a person will breathe tomorrow.

Accepting Chinese currency is like France buying Nazi bonds in 1939 (which France and most European countries did, btw). It seems like, in fact it is, the height of stupidity, but it's amazing what a little bit of promised money can make people do.

This is figuratively, and potentially literally, paying for the bullets that will end up lodged in your skull, because the shooter promises 10% return. Which of course, these states will gladly do.

[ndsipa_pomu]

Meanwhile, buying the U.S. dollar is investing in the continued pumping of CO2 into the atmosphere (Drill, baby, drill) and quite possibly the end of humanity as we know it.

It's also notable that China is pretty much the only game in town for sustainable, renewable energy, so we have a choice between the U.S. (extinction) and China (survival?).

[rdm_blackhole]

What a ridiculous take.

> Hong Kong is annexed

Hong Kong was taken over by the British after the opium wars. It never belonged to the British in the first place.

> As opposed to China, who will probably invade pretty much every Asian country, and the only big unknown is the order.

As opposed to the various US government who have overthrown countless foreign governments when those failed to align themselves with the US interests.

The US has destabilized the entire middle east and created an unprecedented wave of refuges coming from Libya and other neighboring countries and left Europe alone to deal with it.

The US has in the last 30 years invaded multiple countries under false pretenses, taken them over and when nothing worked and the writing was on the wall, left in a hurry again leaving someone else to clean up the mess left behind.

> The South China sea (including Philippines, Japanese, Taiwanese territory) is under Chinese control. And the countries' only hope for maintaining independence is the US.

The US is only helping to contain China in this part of the world because it is in its best interest to do so. The day this changes, the US will leave and these countries will have to fend for themselves once again.

This is certainly not done out of the goodness of the heart of the US. It's about protecting trades routes that are vital to US interest and that is about it.

> Accepting Chinese currency is like France buying Nazi bonds in 1939 (which France and most European countries did, btw). It seems like, in fact it is, the height of stupidity, but it's amazing what a little bit of promised money can make people do.

Since you are mentioning WW2, let's not forget that the US was happy to let much of Europe fall into the hands of the Germans and let Japan continue expanding it's empire until the point where Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Who knows what would have happened if the US was never attacked?

My point is this one, China, just like the US likes to increase/maintain it's influence in the world. Both countries used/ will use any means necessary to achieve their goals whether its through warfare or diplomacy.

Is China better than the US, probably not, but let's not pretend one second that the US is not using a double standard when it comes to the world order. Rules for thee not for me and all that.

[atonse]

> Hong Kong was taken over by the British after the opium wars. It never belonged to the British in the first place.

Isn't almost every country a result of "X took over Y during _ war?" and we recognize those borders everywhere?

[rdm_blackhole]

No, otherwise the whole decolonization would never have happened.

Same with the war in Ukraine, even if Russia managed to conquer all of it, would the world recognize that Ukraine belongs to Russia? I don't think so.

[atonse]

Decolonization in most cases required the colonial power to give independence back to each country.

It wasn’t that a bunch of countries magically started to recognize India as an independent nation and everyone just went along, right?

[spwa4]

The India that gained independence is India + Pakistan + Bangladesh + some rounding errors.

The independence of India was immediately followed by a sectarian war between muslims and hindus in India (started by muslims) which by a number of measures was bigger than WW2. Gandhi immediately turned into the commander-in-chief in this war, a war where millions died, and Gandhi came out on top.

After which Pakistan, now independent, started another war with yet again millions of dead, against "East-Pakistan", to prevent their independence, now known as Bangladesh. This war was a continuation of the partition wars in many ways.

Pakistan is not far from starting another of these wars, by the way, against "Balochistan", the south west of Pakistan.

[TFYS]

The list of atrocities and political influence by the US is just as long if not longer. A country under the US sphere of influence is independent only for as long as its interests don't conflict with US interests. Before Trump the US might have continued pretending that its empire is somehow better than a Chinese one, but he threw that mask into the trash and set it on fire.

[spwa4]

Sorry but it just isn't. INDIVIDUAL things the CCP does today dwarf the sum total of the atrocities the US committed over it's entire lifetime. The situation in Xinjang has more victims yearly than every event in the US since it's founding, and it's not even close to the only mass-atrocity the CCP is engaged in. Tibet. Mongolia. Chinese religious movements.

Ah you're a communist idealist who "won't go into details" (and you'll probably refuse to discuss why almost every attempt at communism ended in a massacring dictatorship ...)

[TFYS]

The US supported genocide in Gaza alone is much worse than anything done in Xinjiang. The genocide of native Americans, the bloody coups and corporate abuse in south America, the wars of the middle east with their millions of victims, the war crimes in Vietnam, the bombing of Japan and who knows how many more horrors that the US has been involved in. Do you honestly believe those things combined have less victims than Xinjiang?

[spwa4]

Not that your other claims aren't equally ridiculous, but sorry, no. Pretty much everything, in China or elsewhere, is worse than Gaza.

Gaza, claimed victims (hamas numbers, rounded up): 65'000 dead. (note that these numbers are ridiculous: for example, did you know, Israel did not kill a single hamas member? Zero. Not a single one)

Gaza, claimed victims, IDF numbers: 13'000 dead (a little under half claimed to be hamas members. >80% are fighting age men)

(and let's not forget the other difference: in the victims of Hamas, >85% are civilians. And that's assuming that everyone, on duty or on holiday, working even indirectly for the military counts as a soldier, including locksmiths and cleaning staff, otherwise it's easily over 90%)

So let's say it's somewhere between those two numbers. But every conflict in the area is bigger than the biggest numbers in Gaza, easily.

Syria, right next door, death toll: 656'000 dead.

Sudan, not that far from Gaza, with hamas' parent organisation the perpetrators: 300'000 dead.

Lebanon (note: conflict started by the PA, against Christians), death toll: at least 150'000 dead.

IS/Daesh (note: conflict started by Palestinians), death toll: 306'000.

Xinjang: 1.2 million imprisoned, 10% dead, per year, according to UN. Obviously that would make it more than double the claimed Gaza death toll PER YEAR (so that would make it 4x as big during the Gaza conflict, except it's been going on for far longer than the Gaza war). As for official figues: https://id.china-embassy.gov.cn/eng/sgdt/202206/t20220622_10...