[epolanski]

> Your country sold you down the river 30 years ago.

Jm2c but I think the harsh truth is that US while having a decently sized population of good software engineers, it is still nowhere near the required amount.

Thus, many companies would rather give 150/200k to someone who's actually good at it and will be impressed by that money rather than some half assed US graduate who only went into SE because he wanted a cushy well paying job.

[pempem]

We could also give them a clear, short path to citizenship if we didn't have enough. Instead we do our best to keep it as chaotic as possible so that those SWE we need can't push for 175/225k

[aleph_minus_one]

> We could also give them a clear, short path to citizenship if we didn't have enough.

The USA currently potentially hasn't enough programmers. If the market tide changes, one of course wants to be able to send these superfluous work migrants back to their home countries.

[chickenzzzzu]

How about we stop centralizing tech talent around 7 big companies that hire H1Bs, and instead let all companies engage in international (and domestic) exchanges of labor and services? Aka, all software engineers now self organize into small groups funded by independent contracts from larger companies.

This solves many, many problems, including where should laborers live, fairness in interviews, etc.

[cbarrick]

> it is still nowhere near the required amount.

How do you reconcile that with all of the SWE layoffs in the past few years?

[bubblethink]

Companies are always going to lay people off, because they can and it is in their financial interest to do so when the shareholders or investors demand cutbacks. AFAIK, Amazon even has a formalized stack ranking system where a certain percentage will be laid off every year to make room for new talent. This has nothing to do with visas or immigrants. If you want to stop that, you need better worker protections, but that's a separate discussion.

[Bratmon]

That's an obvious lie. If it were true, companies wouldn't be suing to keep their job postings hidden from American citizens (source: the article)

[insane_dreamer]

> Jm2c but I think the harsh truth is that US while having a decently sized population of good software engineers, it is still nowhere near the required amount.

This is not true now, if it ever was (maybe for very short periods); there is tremendous competition for every good SWE job out there, and has been for a long time.

[marcusverus]

This is a sorry excuse. If companies were required to hire American students, they would have a strong incentive to foster the development of American talent. It would not be a problem.

> Thus, many companies would rather give 150/200k to someone who's actually good at it and will be impressed by that money rather than some half assed US graduate who only went into SE because he wanted a cushy well paying job.

The idea that Americans wouldn't fight tooth and nail for these jobs is just idiotic.

[_DeadFred_]

How dare that loser want a cushy, well paying job. This is America, that's not allowed for them. We like our workers desperate.

[DaSHacka]

This, I cannot believe how all the most pro-workers rights people I know also support "open borders"-like philosophies.

What do you think is going to happen to your bargaining power as an employee when your employer has an infinite workforce to draw from?

[Seattle3503]

> What do you think is going to happen to your bargaining power as an employee when your employer has an infinite workforce to draw from?

To assumption that there is a finite amount of work in the economy is called "lump of labour fallacy" in economics. It's not useful to ask "What if X were infinite and we held everything else constant?"

[tekknik]

this relates to the economy as a whole, individual industries expand and contract their demand and given the advent of AI we’re in a contraction moment. I vote until the economy stabilizes we terminate H1Bs

[Spivak]

Well yeah, because when you have a much larger working population you have to actually establish rights at the government level or with unions rather than relying on your individual bargaining power.

The two philosophies are not only not incompatible but are necessary to maintain our standard of living. Closed borders, protectionism, and relying on individual bargaining power is another path to a similar end so long as you can keep the US on top.

[almostgotcaught]

> This, I cannot believe how all the most pro-workers rights people I know also support "open borders"-like philosophies.

You ever consider that it's because those people are pro-workers everywhere and not just workers nearby? So yes enabling foreign workers to improve their lives by coming here makes perfect sense.

> What do you think is going to happen to your bargaining power as an employee when your employer has an infinite workforce to draw from?

I mean that's like saying "what do you think is gonna happen to your rights once all the slaves are free". The answer hinges on whether we continue to operate under the government that's comfortable with exploiting its citizens.

[tekknik]

> You ever consider that it's because those people are pro-workers everywhere and not just workers nearby? So yes enabling foreign workers to improve their lives by coming here makes perfect sense.

so then by doing this they hurt the worker here in favor of a worker in some other country?

> I mean that's like saying "what do you think is gonna happen to your rights once all the slaves are free".

when the word slave wasn’t mention at all by the parent, how did you conclude anything about slavery?