[Refreeze5224]

I firmly disagree that history proves this. The history of certain countries, certain economic systems, and certain systems of social organization have proven inequitable, but most people are unfamiliar with the many systems that have proven workable, but have not provided for a small hierarchical cadre of people with coercive power over others. It's not surprising that this sort of thing is not taught within a capitalist or statist system, but they certainly do exist, and have throughout human history, which is much longer than the last 500 years or so existence of hierarchical states and capitalism.

See David Graeber's The Dawn of Everything for a deep dive into some of the many successful systems of human societal organization.

[FirmwareBurner]

You can disagree but the numbers don't lie.

[fragmede]

Of course they do. There's a reason why the saying is "lies, damn lies, and statistics".

[FirmwareBurner]

Can you prove those numbers lie? Because then what's the point of science and statistics? Should we just argue based on vibes then? Where does that get us when we start the conversation with the assumption that all data is always false?

[fragmede]

Someone's always trying to sell you something. Just because they use numbers, doesn't mean you should necessarily buy what they're pushing.

[FirmwareBurner]

What are those numbers trying to sell you?

[fragmede]

I don't know. Are they in the room with us now? Can you point at them?