[fifilura]

Supporting Ukraine against Moscovite aggression is important for all of Europe. Otherwise next they will come for other countries in Europe, as proven by them many times before.

This is extremely little money compare to the alternative.

[wolvesechoes]

> important for all of Europe

What makes it important for Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy or Liechtenstein?

[VagabundoP]

Irish person here. We feel it is important to support the international rule of law. Big countries should not be allowed to invade and take their smaller neighbours. Due to our history we are very sensitive to imperialism.

[fifilura]

"Lisbon should be Russian says Kremlin propagandist"

https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2023-11-28/lisbon-shoul...

If Russia.cobquers Ukraine they will use the people of Ukraine against the rest of Europe.

[wolvesechoes]

But you should be aware that russian foreign policy is not decided in the television. TV propaganda serves internal purposes. And there is a policy and strategy on Kremlin, not just crazy evil Putin trying to destroy the world of Good.

Contrary to hysteric media narrative, decision makers in Kremlin are not mad, crazy or whatever, and believing this brings more harm than good. Russia isn't strong enough to seriously threaten Western Europe, and they are aware of it. Moreover, they have not much to gain by trying to conquer Lisbon versus monstrous costs they would need to bear, even if we ignore the fact they wouldn't be able to not only reach Lisbon, but Berlin as well. Europe is no longer a center of the world, regardless if we like it or not.

That doesn't mean Russia cannot harm interests of countries of Western Europe, carry out sabotage acts, sow and fuel internal strife etc. They can, and they do. But it is not an existential threat.

[steveBK123]

Whats the endgame of the "Russia isn't quite as bad/powerful/ambitious as you think, just let them take Ukraine" posture though?

Where do the Baltics and Poland stand in such a scenario? And in 5-20 years when they've encroached there, what of Germany? Do we let them just slowly digest Eastern Europe all over again?

[fijiaarone]

At what point before the US coup on 2014 was Ukraine not controlled by Russia?

There is an answer, but probably only an actual Ukrainian “nationalist” can tell you. And it was only a couple of years.

[fifilura]

Good that Ukraine is a democracy now then, and control themselves.

[wolvesechoes]

> just let them take Ukraine

Eh, I always forget it is kinda pointless to discuss politics here.

Never stated that they should just take Ukraine, or they are not "as bad". And please spare me lectures about lingering doom of the Easter Europe - I live in Poland, 20 km from the Ukrainian border. I am aware of stakes, especially considering idiocy of my government.

What I objected to is a proposition that "Europe" is some political monolith, and all countries here are equally threatened by Russia. Some European countries are under serious threat (mine among them), others are less threatened, and some are not threatened in any serious manner.

Lack of understanding this causes people to be constantly surprised that things look as they look.

[fifilura]

I am more surprised by the reaction of Hungary than Portugal's reaction. They gave even been invaded by Soviets.

The other commenter from Ireland had a good point about rule based world order. And Ukraine has received a lot of help in particular from Canada but also from Australia.