[seanmcdirmid]

Toyota, Honda, Kia, Nissan make plenty of trucks in the USA, they get around the chicken tax directly. The move to trucks and SUVs seems to be more about consumer sentiment that I can't really understand (I'm a big fan of sedans), it isn't just some hack around the tax system.

[eptcyka]

There’s a floor on how cheap a vehicle can be made to conform to the current safety and fuel economy requirements, the margin is greater for more expensive cars. Manufacturers are incentivising bigger cars.

[eldaisfish]

it is profit for auto makers, not consumer sentiment. larger vehicles have larger price tags and larger profit margins.

Remember that the US auto companies spent billions of dollars in marketing and lying to people that they "need" vehicles the size of tanks.

[harimau777]

Isn't some of it an arms race? I partially have a large vehicle because it's unsafe to be in a small vehicle if I get in a crash with a truck or EV.

[PaulHoule]

They make people think that.

The fact is that modern cars have astonishingly effective safety features that are likely to get you alive out of most crashes regardless of the size of your vehicle. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety publishes data that shows that larger vehicles are safer but it is not like you die in the smaller car most of the time, but rather you are more likely to break your ankle or something.

If your vehicle goes under the tractor pulled by a semi (any size) or if it flips over the guardrail because it's too big to be held by the guardrail you do die.

[arethuza]

If larger vehicles were safer then you'd expect the deaths per unit distance driven for the US to be good - when it's actually quite bad?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...

[crooked-v]

See also: the excellent safety ratings of the Miata, even though it's the smallest car you can get short of Smart or imported kei trucks.

[harimau777]

My understanding is that safety ratings are relative to the class of car. So if you have a small car with excellent ratings and a large car that doesn't mean they will have the same survivability if they crash into each other.

[hnthroay22312]

but larger vehicles also flip easier, so i'm not sure until we have some scientific paper about this.

[lotsofpulp]

No one forced people to buy the larger vehicles when they came on the market. People choose to buy vehicles that let them sit higher and take up more space, when smaller alternatives are readily available.

[murderfs]

People want vehicles the size of tanks. Auto companies are spending billions of dollars to get people to buy their respective tank-sized vehicles, not to turn people onto the segment in general.

[PaulHoule]

I've heard people say "people want vehicles the size of tanks" in discussions like this but I've never heard "I want a vehicle the size of a tank" although that person exists.

It seems like a different world but before the pandemic if you wanted to buy a compact car you would go to the dealer and find out they don't have any new ones, you'll have to settle for used, they say factory washed out in a flood. Well they have 100 SUVs made in the same factory lined up that nobody wants to buy that are $7000 off.

[murderfs]

From a survey of Canadians in 2022 [1]: "We find that SUV drivers view their vehicles as functionally superior to smaller cars in terms of safety, space for lifestyle, handling, and fun. Symbolically, SUVs are seen as a “status symbol” that can communicate a number of images, such as being “successful”. SUV drivers are more likely to see these vehicles as common and “approved” in their social networks, and tend to downplay any negative societal impacts such as increased GHG emissions. Across respondents intending to buy an SUV, willingness-to-downsize to a smaller vehicle was highest under financial incentives (for buying or using a car) or disincentives (for buying or using an SUV)."

I personally don't understand how you could consider an SUV better for handling or fun, but denying people's views doesn't make them not hold them.

1: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S22146...

[dfee]

> I personally don't understand how you could consider an SUV better for handling or fun

This is an imagination problem. There are certain categories of automotive use cases which SUVs are designed to be superior. In those, being in a vehicle designed to handle better at the task is better fun!

For example, taking an SUV off road.

[potato3732842]

>For example, taking an SUV off road.

Not even. Buying thrift store furniture is a wildly different experience in a modern crossover than it is a sedan or even an old station wagon.

[seanmcdirmid]

I drove some gravel Forest Service roads in the past in a sub-compact (who knew the only way up from Oregon to Seattle was via USF roads if you didn't want to take the express way?), and I definitely wish I had more clearance for that use case. If I lived in the woods, an SUV might make sense.

We have more sedans here in the city (Seattle) because our parking space frankly are too small, and even then I see way too many SUVs trying to cram into a parking space labelled compact.

[dfee]

I want a vehicle the size of a tank.

Or at least, a vehicle the size of a Hummer H1. But, would be willing to try out a Marauder, because they look like they’re a blast.

I had tiny sports cars growing from 16-30 years old. They were fun in a different way.

1. https://www.topgear.com/car-news/modified/behold-500bhp-295k...

2. https://www.motor1.com/news/27190/marauder-armored-vehicle-f...

[tstrimple]

I have a family of five and we’ve managed with a single vehicle for basically the last 20 years. So I’ve been in minivan mode a long time now. Recently I went car shopping with my son and it’s crazy to me how much more limited sight lines are in the smaller sedans. You have to be much more active leaning and looking around. I don’t know that I need a tank, but I absolutely love the minivan for driver visibility.

[Spivak]

The data speaks for itself. Honda offers the civic and accord and the CRV outsells them both. SUVs are much higher utility than a sedan for pretty much the same price and same gas mileage.

[eldaisfish]

the data does indeed speak for itself. Honda's Civic and Accord are among the top four selling models for Honda in the USA.

[vostok]

As someone who lives in a city, I'm not sure what I'd do with a car that is smaller than a tank. If it's a small car then it's probably for local trips and super inconvenient to park / re-park / etc. I want a big car to comfortably fit my family, our outdoor toys, and maybe even tow something.

Even if I lived outside a city, what do I gain by driving a smaller car? Going from 35 to 55 mpg? Parking is plentiful and equally convenient for big cars these days.

[hnthroay22312]

most people want all those things but reality they tow something maybe once a year, that's marketing working.

[Scoundreller]

Pareto principle is strong when it comes to towing.

[kanbara]

meanwhile the entire world from japan to the uk to brazil to south africa are fine to go grocery shopping and take their family out in their normal sized car. in the city.

cities are better with fewer cars and better public transit. and you dont need a tank. i didnt know your viewpoint even existed.

[kelnos]

Do they actually want that, or have people been influenced by incessant marketing? Car manufacturers have strong tax reasons to prefer building SUVs over sedans, and their marketing reflects that.

[mc32]

People with families have been fooling around with larger vehicles for some time: station wagons -> minivans -> SUVs -> CUVs. It's not new.

[riffraff]

Most of the time people drive SUVs alone.

I go for walks in the morning and there's a road bottleneck and it's hilarious and sad to see the cars queueing up on both sides, huge ones, with a single person in them, every morning.

I do own a station wagon, and it's shorter than most SUVs, and I use it for long trips, but let's be realistic, that's not what most drives are.

[potato3732842]

>Most of the time people drive SUVs alone.

Most of the time people drive sedans alone.

If people bought based purely on passenger need 99% of vehicles on the road should be 2-seat coupes, pickups and vans.

[riffraff]

I agree, I was just answering to the "people with families drive large cars" in general, and wrote SUV accidentally.

[user____name]

I think people want tanks because all their neighbours are driving tanks.