[telephonic]

Ok, so you're competing directly with Dev Bootcamp (http://devbootcamp.com) by underpricing them.

I'm reading the tuition section here: http://www.appacademy.io/description

It looks like the student pays you 12.5% of their first year's salary. Normally wouldn't the hiring company pay?

If I'm reading it right -- and I might not be -- how is that different than a student loan? Wouldn't that just be 12.5% off the top of their first year's salary? It's not like a potential employer would offer 12.5% more just because you're charging the student.

You've already run a few iOS classes, too. Can you talk about outcomes?

[chriszf]

Is that a problem, underpricing the competition if the market bears it? Dev Bootcamp's cost has risen meteorically since they first opened their doors in February of this year. It is now roughly the same cost as a year's tuition at a UC. Apples to oranges, sure, but it gives the number some perspective.

The difference in the pricing model here is that you don't have to pay it back should things go pear-shaped after the course. Obviously, it's in their interest to secure 100% placement, but at least it's not a financial burden on a student if it doesn't work out. This is an important consideration for some people: these bootcamps are sometimes a last resort for people jump starting a new career after long bouts of unemployment in the current economy. As good as any of these schools are, the risk of dedicating months to a program and taking on additional debt with no guarantee of a job is a tough thing to swallow.

[at-fates-hands]

Not only has Dev Bootcamp's cost risen, they're getting super selective about who they let in the program. The other huge issue would be for people who don't live in SF. On their website they say they work with the best recruiters in SF who are "waiting for you to graduate.". Yeah, so if I'm not from SF, then what are my odds of getting in? Probably slim to none.

[bjoyce1]

Regarding the issue of Dev Bootcamp and international students, I live and work in London England and I'm in the Fall cohort. So I can categorically confirm that they do accept international students. Just wanted to clear that point up.

[lachyg]

I find the matter of fact tone of your comment interesting. From what are you basing "they're getting super selective about who they let in the program". Our interview structure and selection criteria has remained the same for a long time, only just now is that changing and by no means is it becoming more selective.

We also don't discriminate based on location, gender, etc.

[gmaguyon]

I've read somewhere that Dev Bootcamp applications for future sessions is now 1000+ for future cohorts. Does everyone have a chance at an interview, or are there specific qualities you look for in an application before giving the interview 'greenlight'?

[telephonic]

Nope, not a problem. It was meant as a statement of fact, not a judgement! :)

[ruggeri]

Hey! Thanks for the interest!

To my mind, we're not underpricing Dev Bootcamp. Our focus in pricing is to change the risk equation for students. We want to lower the barrier to entry for the tech jobs market. We also want students to know that we are really committed/invested in them.

The big difference from student loans: students only pay us if the course actually works :-)

Our first batch students are just beginning their final projects. You can check out what they have to say here: http://appacademy.io/alumni

[kin]

curious, what determines if the course does not work? Is there a time period that students have to get jobs post-course that determines if the student does not have to pay?

[CesareBorgia]

There will be some time period, but it will vary from student to student. We'll discuss what makes sense for each student as part of the application process.

[telephonic]

That's fair. But then why ask the student to pay, rather than the employer?

[ruggeri]

We think the incentives align better with this model. We want our students to take the best job for them, regardless of whether the company is paying recruiting fees.

As far as recruiting fees go, when employers make a decision on salaries, they look at the total employee cost. If the employer needs to pay a recruiting fee, that goes into the cost. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, etc, etc. :-)

[w1ntermute]

Maybe you should set up some sort of subcontracting scheme - that the students wouldn't have to pay taxes on the 12.5% that they pay to you.

[Quizz]

Wouldn't that 12.5% be a business expense deductible against the gross income anyway? Ask a tax expert, but these costs are "business expenses" and should be deductible.

[patrickaljord]

Why do you care so much that the student has to pay? And why insist that it's just a cheaper bootcamp? That plus the fact that your account was created an hour ago makes your negativity suspicious. Sorry if I'm wrong.

[jfarmer]

It's just unorthodox, is all. It also sets up a strange dynamic if a student can't or won't pay.

It would be even lower risk for the student if the hiring company paid, which is a standard practice -- referral fees as a percentage of the referral's first-year salary.

15%-20% is the standard.

[pbreit]

If you don't find a job, you don't pay. And you pay in installments over 6 months (ie, 2% of your annual salary per month). This does not seem crazy. At all.

[mgamma500]

I'll agree it's so crazy its brilliant! I have been trying to self train and make it into mobile platforms for over a year now and its not as easy or speedy as I originally expected. I have very little programming experience and am looking for a more specific career change from IT break fix to mobile dev. I think this model is the perfect way out of the current long term schooling or upfront high cost boot camp that may or may not deliver. Experience is the key and this style of class seems to have lots of hands on experience. It's the perfect mix of intense focus as far as I can tell.

[rgrieselhuber]

Seems reasonable, you're paying for retraining into what should hopefully be a better career, in as low-risk a way as possible.

[tibbon]

Competing with, yes. I'd say they are differently pricing more than underpricing. I've got friends I've been trying to get on the Rails developer career path and something like this is great for them when they don't even have $1000 cash for something that just might not work out for them.

[doktrin]

telephonic : This account was obviously created specifically for the purpose of commenting on this thread. Please be a little more up front about who you are and what your intentions might be.