[os2warpman]

One of my favorite genres of non-fiction is when people who claim they value independence and off-griddyness are forced to be independently off-grid.

"No no we meant off-grid in every aspect save one!"

I know these people, half my family is these people. I've listened to them rail against the man for decades and decades and decades.

When you tell them that the invisible hands of the free market will gladly sell them the bootstraps they require, they get mighty angry.

[pavel_lishin]

But they have been buying the bootstraps. They were buying water from the town, and they were perfectly aware that it wasn't something the town was obligated to provide.

The problem seems to be that the townsfolk want to water their lawn:

> “These men were brought in because I had put them on a water restriction schedule,” Pacheco said in an interview. “They are upset they can’t water their lawns while people can’t have water to actually live.”

They're not completely cut off; they just have to significantly further to purchase their water, and some of them do:

> Some are driving two hours to Pueblo to buy water. Many have been getting water in the town of Blanca, where officials offered — only as an emergency solution until the end of August — to let people fill up water tanks from a hose connected to a fire hydrant.

I don't think this is a situation where we're laughing at people who are in the Find Out phase.

[mothballed]

Many people haul water in Colorado because the bootstrapping method of drilling your own well is now heavily restricted, and of course the same people stopping you from drilling the well (government) is happy to monopolize and sell you the water.

Meanwhile you can use percussion drilling to drill a well of virtually arbitrary depth, at very little cost, as was done by the Chinese for thousands of years to depths well below 500ft with not much more than bamboo and rocks.

[flovec]

I find this quite cynical, but I also can't speak to half of your family, ha!

I am one of the folks who, in my youth, purchased land in between Fort Garland and San Luis, with dreams of off-grid living. I succeeded, mostly, but not without many hiccups - the locals being one of them.

For me, "off-grid" was about _control_: control over my mortgage (none!), bills (no monthly subscriptions to privatized power companies generating profit!), and, well, life in general. I'd say the general theme wasn't so much about "sticking it to the man" (what's to stick and who?) or "being self reliant" (impossible), but about fighting classism _to some degree_ via a veritable case of civil disobedience.

To my understanding, it is basically illegal OR extremely difficult to find a living situation where someone else (bank, etc.) isn't profiting off folks, and I find that, well, avarice. But you could find a situation like that out in the valley, because land was cheap and you could "get away" with a lot out there, which basically is just another way of saying folks could _afford_ to be poor.

America is entrenched in classism, and everywhere I look someone with less money getting fucked. And this is ESPECIALLY true when it comes to building code enforcement: wealthy folks pay the same amount as poor folks for things like permits, et. al. ($$), code means nothing when you can afford to hire engineers to prove its safe, pay for costly zoning variations, etc. So as harsh as the valley was in climate, it was basically an oasis of sorts to younger me for all those reasons.

All that to say: there are other genres of fiction worth exploring :)

[theshrike79]

I'm one of those off grid people, but I'm not looking for 100% off grid.

What I want is the equivalent of an UPS, but for everything.

If the municipal power grid, water and sewage go down. I want to be able to live mostly like before.

If there's a disruption in the logistics chain for the grocery store for any reason, I can live with what I have and can grow for a week or two in relative comfort, a month would suck.

If the wired internet connection goes down, I want to have a wireless option that automatically takes over.

[thrance]

It's a fantasy, an aesthetic. There is no living off-grid when you depend on a giant gas-guzzling truck with a thousand moving parts for your every needs.

[15155]

How about an electric vehicle, a few dozen kW of solar, and a drilled well?

[pavel_lishin]

Slightly better, but how do you get parts to repair your vehicle or anything else?

There's virtually no such thing as "off-grid", no such thing as a human being who lives totally unreliant on people around them in the modern age, unless you can carry everything you own in both hands, and can survive with nothing else. And there's damn few people out there living like that.

[hdgvhicv]

“No man is an island”

[0manrho]

> How about an electric vehicle, a few dozen kW of solar, and a drilled well?

It's the same issue, you're still dependent on outside resources (especially if we're being realistic and understand that everything will break and need repaired/maintenance/replacement eventually), you're just switching which resources you're dependent on.

[vel0city]

EVs will still need some maintenance. Are you planning on making your own tires?

[darth_avocado]

Off the grid folks are cosplaying the Amish lifestyle

[greenavocado]

The Amish do not live off grid generally speaking

[energy123]

Look who doesn't like solar power, the most pro-independence energy source. It's a solution that decouples you from everyone for a good 20 years.

[OutOfHere]

Yes, solar, with atmospheric water generators.

[belter]

You will see the same with "stable-coins" and Wall Street move to Crypto...

[greenavocado]

That's just another profit making scam masquerading as legitimate business activity

[OutOfHere]

A dismissal without a valid logical reason is in turn dismissable.

[pkulak]

In the words of the immortal Lebowski, they're more off-grid than you, Dude.

[hollywood_court]

Reminds me of people who hate 'socialism' but spend their entire lives in the military.

[petralithic]

Do workers in the military control their means of production? If not, there's no relation to socialism.

[lokar]

In modern US politics, "socialism" is the Government giving people anything for free.

[vondur]

That still doesn't make sense, the Government is paying people to be in the military.

[lokar]

My point was really that "socialism" (in common use, especially on the libertarian right) is not really tethered to any historical definition. It's a political term to attach to things you don't like.

[asacrowflies]

You have to very dense or bordering on disingenuous to not see the subsidized healthcare, subsidized childcare and spouses, subsidized moving costs, etc etc etc as "socialism" in the colloquial sense..... You can't get even 10% those benefits in the private sector without the same chuds screeching about communism.

[Jensson]

You get those benefits in many programmer jobs, its just things companies provide since it attracts people to the job.

[Gud]

Not at all, those are just perks of the job, not socialism in any sense.

[petralithic]

Benefits like that have nothing to do with socialism or communism.

[petralithic]

Sure, however the people using that word are simply incorrect.

[potato3732842]

You are projecting an ideology onto these people for no reason other than to satisfy your own bias and/or earn a few cheap upvotes from likeminded readers.

99.9% of these people are not living "off grid" for any particular ideological reason. They are living off grid because where they live is simply too dispersed and/or poor for there to be a grid. They've either always lived this way or adapted when they moved there.

Buyer: "but if it's off grid where do I get water"

Realtor: "there's services you pay for that truck it in and fill your tank, just like propane or heating oil"

Buyer:"oh, ok"

[VWWHFSfQ]

> Debi and John Marks moved from Florida to build their dream home in the high desert of Costilla County. They bought property in the ranches two years ago with plans to build a retirement home and live off the grid among the pines

...

> “We wanted to be as independent as possible, and so we searched all over the state for property that would fit our needs, and this fit the bill,” Debi Marks said.

...

> Amanda Ellis bought a house in Costilla County five years ago to live off the grid.

These are people specifically moving to this unincorporated county in order to live "off the grid". This sounds ideological to me.

[ramesh31]

>These are people specifically moving to this unincorporated county in order to live "off the grid". This sounds ideological to me.

Realtors out there are selling sandcastles in the sky to flatlanders who don't know any better. The property they are buying is parceled out ranch land that went bust generations ago for the same reasons. These aren't "prepper" types so much as folks who want the Colorado high-country lifestyle when they can't actually afford it.

[ryandrake]

I think a lot of people are just cosplaying as Little House On The Prairie and think they're independent and "off grid" because they don't have monthly utility bills. Except they're buying their propane and buying their water, not to mention their clothes and everything else. So they're actually on-grid, but just with extra steps.

[os2warpman]

>You are projecting an ideology onto these people for no reason other than to satisfy your own bias and/or earn a few cheap upvotes from likeminded readers.

No, I read what they said during the interviews used in the article.

[potato3732842]

Which you didn't quote or reference and who's commentary was included because it is noteworthy, eye catching or controversial, not because it is representative.

It ain't no different than the 5am news person interviewing people off the streets and only the "interesting" responses making the 7am news.

If we want to compare family anecdotes I can trot out my own but that's not the point.

[os2warpman]

You don't need to pull quotes or provide references in a comment about the article you've just read and are commenting on.[1]

Of course, I read every word of the article instead of just the title, or skimming it, or having an AI summarize it and spoon feed it to me like I am a baby, and I expect others to do the same.

[1] common fucking sense