[re-lre-l]

And what people in western, democratic world think about it? That this is just fine? I live in autocratic, almost dictatorship regime country and for the past 100 years we've just gotten used to the idea that we don't have any rules here. But I thought in EU and US things are different. All these news stories about Control, UK surveillance, age verification, all this stuff with no significant reaction baffle me.

[layer8]

There is significant opposition from civil rights and privacy groups, from courts as well as from the EU Parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_to_Prevent_and_Comb...

[jchw]

I live in the United States and it baffles me just as much, trust me. Fine, maybe I didn't have the biggest expectations for the general public, but I really expected the Internet to react much more viscerally to what is happening. In the past, the Internet was much more defensive about Internet policing that was significantly less dystopian. Now, it feels like no matter how rapidly things decline, it's just another Tuesday; most people are unwilling to make any sort of sacrifice or risk for any cause, and nobody (including me, I guess) is really sure what to do anyways.

It really wasn't that long ago that we were all talking about SOPA.

[AnthonyMouse]

This is, ironically, one of the reasons we need a more decentralized public square.

Large gatekeepers get flack from politicians if they allow "the wrong people" to organize. First they claim there is a huge problem with terrorists/nazis/pedos/etc., maybe even find a couple of real instances of those things, and use that to demand that the gatekeepers Do Something, i.e. set up a censorship apparatus.

But the modern ones are subtle. You don't try to read something and get refused, it just goes to the bottom of the feed where you won't see it. Take advantage of the human failing that busybodies will take petty satisfaction in causing harm to strangers they've been told are their enemies. Let them issue false reports against anyone pointing out the emperor has no clothes. Have the algorithm take those reports seriously, with useless or non-existent customer service that can do nothing about adversarial report brigading. Make it known that this is what happens to people who don't toe the party line so people self-censor and people who don't get shadow banned.

It's an assault on the ability of the public to defend itself from bad ideas.

Large gatekeepers delenda est.

[nip]

A website was set up to inform and facilitate contacting MEPs: https://fightchatcontrol.eu

Additionally, keep in mind that controversial laws or proposals, at least in France, are often announced or passed during summer vacation when people are away, limiting scrutiny and attention.

Expect to hear more outrage come September

[azangru]

> And what people in western, democratic world think about it?

People are usually asked to 'think about the children'. Pedophiles, drugs, suicides, self-harm, cyberbullying; and whatever other horror stories the media has at hand. This maneuver is usually sufficient to neutralize the opposition.

[Roark66]

In my country that has managed to free itself from communism just 35 years ago everyone I know opposes it.

Politicians from countries like Germany have tried to make EU decide things like this on the "majority principle" for ages (because they know they can bully smaller countries into submission), but we still have the consensus principle.

Every country has to agree. So it takes only one country to put a stop to it.

[AnthonyMouse]

> but we still have the consensus principle.

Beware attacks on checks and balances like this. If they actually work, someone will try to get rid of them.

[graemep]

> In my country that has managed to free itself from communism just 35 years ago everyone I know opposes it.

That tends to confirm my feeling that people in countries that have not suffered from tyrannical government for a long time have forgotten the value of privacy and freedom of speech because they have not seen the consequences in living memory. This is coming when the last of the people who remember the pre WW2 era are dying. Dictatorship is no longer part of living memory.

There has definitely need a cultural change in the UK in the last few decades. People have far more trust in the system (government and big business) or have learned helplessness (in a recent discussion about privacy people told me I was naive to think I could stop my private data being collected anyway so should not bother trying). This was in the context about what people say about their kids (specifically education, mental health, family problems) on Facebook.

> Every country has to agree. So it takes only one country to put a stop to it.

A lot of pressure can be brought on bear on any one country by the rest though.

The government of a country may not have the same view as the people. When the UK was in the EU the government pushed EU surveillance regulation, IMO so they could then then say it was not their fault it was introduced, they had to follow the EU directive (many years ago when there was strong public opposition to more surveillance).

[microtonal]

That tends to confirm my feeling that people in countries that have not suffered from tyrannical government for a long time have forgotten the value of privacy and freedom of speech

I think it is more complex than that, see Hungary and Poland (though Poland is a bit on the rebound).

[graemep]

Yes, undoubtedly more complex than that, but I think it is an important factor - people do not value what they have taken for granted.

[Paradigma11]

The problem with the consensus principle is that it will always be profitable for the Putins and Xis of this world to pay off an Orban or Fico to block EU decisions they dont like.

Which is why I am for majority principle, even though I am from a small country that would lose out on power. Countries still can leave using article 50 if it is not palatable for them.

[port11]

Given the state and amount of lobbying, I'd rather have some good stuff blocked due to lack of consensus, than more of this anti-democratic nonsense approved because Thorn and the EPP are buddies.

[FpUser]

I think that the dictate of majority is one of the worst things about "democracies". As for buying politicians for a purpose - the whole of the EU looks like US lapdog.

[account42]

What democracy are you thinking about? All implementations have a small minority of "representatives" making all the decisions.

[Hilift]

> But I thought in EU and US things are different.

Different indeed.

Privacy is enforced through compliance and civil court actions. In 2018, one of the largest actual data breaches at the time (~300 million customer records) netted about $0.25 per record in penalties, after several years of lawyering. ($52 million (US)/$23 million (UK)).

The EU makes more money fining companies for policy violations:

A €1.2 billion ($1.3 billion) fine was imposed by the Irish Data Protection Commission (DPC) for transferring Facebook users' personal data from the EU to the US in violation of GDPR.

That is what privacy is about.

https://nationalcioreview.com/articles-insights/extra-bytes/...

[pqtyw]

Well Chat Control would offset that 10 fold...

[raverbashing]

Gee I don't know, maybe if the press and journalists weren't a bunch of useless pr peddlers maybe we could have a better gauge of it

[scarface_74]

There are no rules in the US anymore either. We just pardoned 1500 criminals who tried to overthrow the government and kill representative.

The President is accepting bribes (Paramount, Disney, Twitter, Facebook, Apple) and he is being allowed to use power that constitutionally is suppose to belong to the Congress.