[Roark66]

In my country that has managed to free itself from communism just 35 years ago everyone I know opposes it.

Politicians from countries like Germany have tried to make EU decide things like this on the "majority principle" for ages (because they know they can bully smaller countries into submission), but we still have the consensus principle.

Every country has to agree. So it takes only one country to put a stop to it.

[AnthonyMouse]

> but we still have the consensus principle.

Beware attacks on checks and balances like this. If they actually work, someone will try to get rid of them.

[graemep]

> In my country that has managed to free itself from communism just 35 years ago everyone I know opposes it.

That tends to confirm my feeling that people in countries that have not suffered from tyrannical government for a long time have forgotten the value of privacy and freedom of speech because they have not seen the consequences in living memory. This is coming when the last of the people who remember the pre WW2 era are dying. Dictatorship is no longer part of living memory.

There has definitely need a cultural change in the UK in the last few decades. People have far more trust in the system (government and big business) or have learned helplessness (in a recent discussion about privacy people told me I was naive to think I could stop my private data being collected anyway so should not bother trying). This was in the context about what people say about their kids (specifically education, mental health, family problems) on Facebook.

> Every country has to agree. So it takes only one country to put a stop to it.

A lot of pressure can be brought on bear on any one country by the rest though.

The government of a country may not have the same view as the people. When the UK was in the EU the government pushed EU surveillance regulation, IMO so they could then then say it was not their fault it was introduced, they had to follow the EU directive (many years ago when there was strong public opposition to more surveillance).

[microtonal]

That tends to confirm my feeling that people in countries that have not suffered from tyrannical government for a long time have forgotten the value of privacy and freedom of speech

I think it is more complex than that, see Hungary and Poland (though Poland is a bit on the rebound).

[graemep]

Yes, undoubtedly more complex than that, but I think it is an important factor - people do not value what they have taken for granted.

[Paradigma11]

The problem with the consensus principle is that it will always be profitable for the Putins and Xis of this world to pay off an Orban or Fico to block EU decisions they dont like.

Which is why I am for majority principle, even though I am from a small country that would lose out on power. Countries still can leave using article 50 if it is not palatable for them.

[port11]

Given the state and amount of lobbying, I'd rather have some good stuff blocked due to lack of consensus, than more of this anti-democratic nonsense approved because Thorn and the EPP are buddies.

[FpUser]

I think that the dictate of majority is one of the worst things about "democracies". As for buying politicians for a purpose - the whole of the EU looks like US lapdog.

[account42]

What democracy are you thinking about? All implementations have a small minority of "representatives" making all the decisions.