[olliesaunders]

You should think more. You should think less. You should be constantly thinking. You should never think at all.

It’s not that simple yo.

Maybe the author of this article has a particular person and a particular task in mind when he says you should think less but, if you take him literally (as if he is saying all people should think less, all the time), he is definitely wrong. We didn’t evolve awkwardly large brains because they look nice or because god likes women to die giving birth.

Here’s are my two most important points: how much you should think depends on task at hand and whether you should modify the amount you think depends on your current habits. Any person who tells you how much to think and hasn’t considered these points is talking to the clouds.

Examples:

Yesterday I was transferring computer components between two different cases. While trying to install the optical drive, without thinking I kept putting the mounting brackets on the wrong way. Once I was sufficiently frustrated I actually thought about what I was doing. I realized that there were 8 possible ways to mount the brackets; only one way was correct; and then, after about 20 seconds of thinking, I learned the correct way and why it was correct. Had I used those 20 seconds of thinking at the start I could have saved myself 20 minutes of fumbling around. Moral of the story: thinking is good?

Second example. When I come home from the store I have to unpack my shopping into an inadequately sized fridge. When this problem was novel to me I used to pontificate about the best packing configuration and create a detailed plan. When unpacking I would find some things wouldn’t fit and others would have too much space so the plan needed to be revised. I would also worry about how difficult it was to retrieve things from the fridge once I’d packed them so I could find myself standing in front of the fridge for quite some time trying to make the best possible decisions.

Needless to say, I don’t do this any more. Instead I just start packing the shopping away and I just try things until its all packed and I don’t worry too much. I suppose I’m still thinking as I’m doing it but I’m also in a state of flow. Moral of the story: thinking is bad?

I think the point here has less to do with thinking and everything to do with control. We are naturally wired to find situations where we are out of control stressful and so we conclude that more control is always better when actually getting control of some things is more work than it’s worth.

Perhaps this is a lesson programmers need to learn more than other people. I used to program for a living and now I work with people a lot more than computers. I’m still having difficulty getting used to the fact that some of the people I work with aren’t that bright, or don’t care about doing a good job, or are used to always getting their own way. If you try to control that, you go insane.

As a corollary, maybe if you limit your attempts to control to a reasonable degree and you are able to keep your thinking focused, you should think as much as possible.

Please criticize what I’ve said here.

[LeonW]

This is very interesting and I completely agree with your points made. Exploring certain new activities and turning them into habits (as mentioned), whilst staying in an alert thinking state to figure out the issue on transferring computer components are both vital and important things to do.

What I'd like to pick up on is your last sentence on is "As a corollary, maybe if you limit your attempts to control to a reasonable degree and you are able to keep your thinking focused, you should think as much as possible.", which is what I believe this is all about.

When we aren't trying to figure out problems on transferring computer components, but when we are waking up and brushing our teeth, walking to the store, eating lunch, driving home, those are the moments were we tend to still think, when it isn't necessary. Eckhart Tolle put it this way:

"Your mind is an instrument, a tool. It is there to be used for a specific task, and when the task is completed, you lay it down. As it is, I would say about 80 to 90 percent of most people's thinking is not only repetitive and useless, but because of its dysfunctional and often negative nature, much of it is also harmful. Observer you rmind and you will find this to be true. It causes a serious leakage of vital energy. This kind of compulsive thinking is actually an addiction." (p. 19, The Power Of Now)

Looking back, "Why you should give up thinking 80-90% of your thoughts" as the title would probably help to clarify. Let me know if that makes any more sense to bring it into perspective.

[espeed]

Thanks for the Tolle quote. I have been working on this and just picked up a copy of "Mindfulness in Plain English." I'm trying to quite a noisy brain. When you don't unplug, you never clear your head, and this can build up anxiety.

[LeonW]

Ahh, "quieting the noisy brain", that is a choice of words that couldn't describe it any better. Indeed, if you don't unplug and find "gaps" between your thinking, that you make larger and larger, until thinking is only a tiny chunk of your day, it is very hard to practice mindfulness. Will pick up this book, sounds intriguing!

[olliesaunders]

When we aren't trying to figure out problems on transferring computer components, but when we are waking up and brushing our teeth, walking to the store, eating lunch, driving home, those are the moments were we tend to still think, when it isn't necessary.

People cite lack of necessity as the reason to abstain when their is a well understood cost to the activity—usually time or energy. I think I would find it more costly to deliberately avoid thinking than to just let my mind wonder in all the examples you gave. Additionally, if I just let my mind wonder, I might think of something cool or something I forgot to do. Actually that last sentence is downplaying the importance of idle mind wondering. I have a habit of going out for walks specifically because it fosters this contemplative state. I even make efforts to avoid people when I walk because seeing people is often very distracting so quite often I walk at night and in isolated places.

Your mind is an instrument, a tool. It is there to be used for a specific task, and when the task is completed, you lay it down

Perhaps the metaphor shouldn’t be taken so seriously but, you put down a tool because you can’t use your hand very well while holding it. My brain is stuck in my head I don’t see the benefit to turning it off, if that were even possible.

As it is, I would say about 80 to 90 percent of most people's thinking is not only repetitive and useless, but because of its dysfunctional and often negative nature, much of it is also harmful.

What Tolle seems to be describing here is a person who’s mind is filled with negative and harmful thoughts. It sounds like he is describing someone who is mentally ill. So unless that’s you, its probably not relevant.

As for useless thoughts: I once did an experiment where I tried to write down everything as I thought it. It challenged my ability to type quickly more than anything but I noticed some interesting patterns nonetheless: 90% of everything I wrote was garbage. "I wonder if..." this and "could you maybe..." that. Even though this is the case with most of the stuff we think is that a reason to stop thinking? Also I would posit that its completely OK to think about a bunch of crap. Your mind is one of the few safe places where you can produce lots of crap without worrying that anyone is going to see it and scold you for it in some way. And Edward De Bono would absolutely testify to the importance of generative thinking activities in order to get at valuable ideas even if lots of crap is made in the process.

If you infer from this that I don’t believe mindfulness you are only partially correct. I’m actually a big believer in self-awareness and particularly awareness of feelings and also in metacognition (thinking about thinking). But I aspire to a healthy diet of all types of thinking. Sometimes active focus is called for, sometimes I allow myself to daydream, sometimes I think in an emotionless critical way, sometimes I forget about what is correct and just think about how I feel or other people are feeling, sometimes I go into idea mode and become really analytical about the way I’m thinking and try to modify it to come up with different stuff. Each of these have their own advantages. An ideal might be to combine them or rapidly switch or maybe determine an optimum mixture. What people tend to do instead is habituate some more than others and consequently become better at some more than others. But the only time I think there is a problem, discussing at this level of abstraction, is when people fixate on one even when it isn’t working. Developing a habit of deliberately mixing it up is probably a good idea.

All this is assuming you want to be good at all different types of things. If you only want to be a peaceful monk then mindfulness is probably the way to go. Why does it appeal to you anyway?

[stinos]

funny I've gone through the fridge sample myself. However I choose the path in between the two solutions: yes just flowing and tertris'ing your stuff definitely costs less time, but I soon discovered it would drive me mad after a while because I couldn't find things quickly. Not because they were unreachable, but becasue they were in a different place every week or so. Which is hard if like me, the autistic side of your brain likes to have things always in the same place just because that way of organising undeniably gives you the fastest way to get something back. So now I still go with the tetris way, but to make it more convenient afterwards (and to make the game more interesting, lol) there are now categories.

Anyway long story short: you are 100% right and the OP's story is a fine read but too general. Which is often the case on the net.

[olliesaunders]

Which is hard if like me, the autistic side of your brain likes to have things always in the same place just because that way of organising undeniably gives you the fastest way to get something back.

To which I would ask: are you doing that out of a need to have control and order or because you really think it is a worthwhile use of your time?

I’m not too dogmatic about it though. Sometimes it just feels good to get everything nice and organized. And I think it’s also important to feel comfortable. The time to question these things is when you think it is a bottleneck in your overall performance. Any person dedicated to being a great programmer should seldom worry about how they are packing the fridge unless its affecting their ability to program, for example.

[stinos]

"are you doing that out of a need to have control and order or because you really think it is a worthwhile use of your time?" both actually. For example I also do some woodworking, bicycle maintenance etc, requiring a bunch of tools. When starting some work I really like that I can think of any tool and just pick it up without having to look for it, could even say it makes me happy, while at the same time not finding something can seriously get on my nerves. At the same time, sometimes when putting back all tools after some job, I really think "ha, this may take some time now, but it will be worth it next time". Does all this affect my life? Not really since I'm used to it and it takes only a fraction of time/thinking in comparision with the rest of it.

[ChuckMcM]

I think you are further along the path than the OP is. This has come up several times recently in various forms [1], basically analysis paralysis is a bad thing, it interferes with getting things done. Its quite reasonable to analyze things, and then to stop when the future benefit is small.

[1] http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=analysis+pa...

[tehwebguy]

I think you're overthinking this.

[wissler]

My only criticism isn't directed at you, but at the fact that you have to make an argument that thinking is good. The original article is itself thought -- poor thought, but thought nonetheless. It refutes itself.