[socalgal2]

> The shift in perception of alcohol is certainly a good sign.

Is it? That same video, in the last 2-3 mins, mentioned all the positives of alcohol and ton of possibly related fallout from social drinking going down. People being lonely and depressed instead of socializing.

If I had to choose between living an extra few years but being lonely and depressed vs living a few less years but enjoying them a bunch more I'd choose the enjoyment.

I get that *maybe* that can happen without the alcohol but it's not happening and my experience is that alcohol is a net positive at the moment, until some substitute appears.

Also, different cultures have different associations with alcohol. My opinions on alcohol changed over my life:

As a child my parents offered me a sip of wine/beer/etc and it tasted horrible so I had no interest.

As a teen I happened to get interested in a religion that said "no alcohol" and so I saw it as a bad thing.

As a 20-25 I gave up the religion but it was "designated driver" time and I was happy to be that and so alcohol had this negative "drunk drivers" association.

Around 26-30 I got in a relationship with some who liked to drink socially. I tried it, nothing tasted good and it gave me a headache so after a few months I went back to not drinking as i got nothing positive out of it.

As 30 something I moved to Japan where (1) I no longer had to drive so no worries about drunk driving (2) my friends/co-workers/classmates introduced me to izakaya culture - being with friends for 2-6 hours, drinking and snacking and talking. And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings. Now, love that experience and I wouldn't give it up for almost anything. I love being with my friends, and, as the video pointed out, the alcohol works. The experience is different than without alcohol, and in a positive way. Remove it and it's influences and I think the experience would die out. I certainly don't like the negative health effects but I'm not going to give up hanging out with friends and the drinking, for me, is a positive part of that experience.

Here's a talk about how alcohol helped civilization

https://longnow.org/talks/02022-slingerland/

[cedws]

I live in Japan at the moment and from what I've observed, people enjoy the night a lot more than in London. I'm 24 and almost never see people my age in central London - it's simply too expensive for anyone to really hang out there. The busy pubs that people do go to are £8 a pint and have terrible service.

I feel that Japan is a place where you can really enjoy yourself at night. You don't have to worry about your phone being stolen, being ripped off or drugged, or having to pay for an extortionate taxi ride as long as you can wait long enough for the first train. London nightlife is worse in every way besides nightclubs.

[kruffalon]

> my friends/co-workers/classmates introduced me to izakaya culture - being with friends for 2-6 hours, drinking and snacking and talking. And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings.

There must be something I'm not understanding about "izakaya culture", because that just sounds like hanging with friends without a specific activity planned so you just talk shit, have a drink and eat (whether at home or different places around town), maybe someone breaks out a pack of cards?

[socalgal2]

You might be right. Maybe it's solely cultural inertia and the fact that there are tons of izakaya that can take a group from 2 to 24 and up, whereas there aren't many places to play boardgames. You can offer someone's house but that's usually less convenient geographically in my experience.

Someone's house might not be clean, they have to plan ahead. Someone's house might not have snacks. They either have to get some or else do potluck but potluck requires everyone to plan ahead. Someone's house likely doesn't have as much variety so people have to settle for what's available. Someone's house doesn't have a waiter and cooking staff so people can be stuck in the kitchen. I guess you can order doordash/pizza to solve some of that. Though if you want something else it's not going to arrive in 3-5 mins like an izakaya. It will be 20-40mins. Someone's house might not seat as many people (regularly had 25-30 people show up). Someone's house you might need to keep quiet (like an apartment). Someone's house might have pets (so people with pet allergies can't come).

Yea, I know you didn't say "someone's house" but I don't know where else I could break out a deck of cards. Most restaurants/bars won't allow it AFAIK so that's what made me think of people's homes.

[Symbiote]

The cards was an aside.

What you describe sounds very similar to going to a pub in Britain, a tapas bar in Spain or a beer hall in Germany. (Presumably some traditional American equivalent, but I don't know the name.)

"And sometimes going to 2nd, 3rd, or 4th outings" is called a pub crawl or bar crawl in English.

[socalgal2]

I think pub in Britain, tapas bar in Spain, beer hall in Germany are all similar to izakaya in Japan. In the USA though, the USA arguably doesn't have an analog to those. The USA has sports bars. Sports bars have 12 to 50 TVs up to watch sports. It's not the same vibe at all. Sports bars have very bad food, unlike izayaka (and maybe tapas bars).

In the USA you also generally have to drive which limits the drinking. I don't know about Germany/Spain/Britain in general but certainly places like Berlin/Barcelona/London it's easy to go out drinking without having to drive.