[smsm42]

Gas and cars are already heavily taxed. In California, for example, it's 61c per gallon now. I am not sure what's the situation in Switzerland, but last time I have been in Europe gas prices there was very significantly higher than in the US (even in California). Given as European gas doesn't seem to be a different product than US gas, I have to conclude Europeans already pay a lost of costs when buying gas. Same with car prices. So claiming car drivers do not pay the costs is just plain wrong.

[bkettle]

> So claiming car drivers do not pay the costs is just plain wrong.

We can’t determine that that is the case simply because the cost seems like a lot. California has the highest gas taxes in the US, so even if California is correctly pricing the externalities of consuming a gallon of gas (which I very much doubt), the rest of the country is under-pricing those externalities. The EU has a minimum gas tax of $1.60 per gallon, so if they are correctly pricing the externalities, California must be under-pricing them by over half.

[pkulak]

That 61 cents doesn’t even come close to covering road maintenance, let alone pollution and every other negative externality of personal car use.

[amanaplanacanal]

I'm not familiar with how things are done in Europe, but in the US fuel taxes aren't enough to pay for road maintenance, let alone new construction and externalities like pollution. New construction is typically mostly done with federal grants (newly printed money) and pollution we all just breathe.

[Leherenn]

According to the Swiss government that's actually the case there: https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/mobility-tra...

"Degree of coverage of motorised road traffic infrastructure costs: 111%"

[jerlam]

California doesn't even have the same kind of gas as other US states. Supply is limited due to only a subset of refineries that can produce it.

Gasoline is regulated both by federal, local, and state laws.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/fuels-enforcment-pr...

https://www.wearethepractitioners.com/index.php/topics/art-a...

[lillecarl]

It is a different product, across the world. In Sweden you can't buy anything below 95 octane whereas I've seen 89 in Australia and 87 seems to be common in USA according to Claude.

Editorialized: US "gas" is cheap crap

[striking]

> An octane rating, or octane number, is a standard measure of a fuel's ability to withstand compression in an internal combustion engine without causing engine knocking. The higher the octane number, the more compression the fuel can withstand before detonating. Octane rating does not relate directly to the power output or the energy content of the fuel per unit mass or volume, but simply indicates the resistance to detonating under pressure without a spark.

from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

It just lets higher performance cars achieve higher compression ratios. I believe technically this means it has a little bit less raw combustion potential the higher the octane rating. But none of this actually matters in practice as long as you feed your car what it asks for.

[lillecarl]

It means we can run higher compression in our engines without engine knock, which means we can run our turbos and timing harder on a smaller dispacement engine without ruining it, meaning more efficient engines.

Cleetus McFarland ran a car on brake-clean which has really low octane rating so sure anything works if you care about nothing. https://youtu.be/0hYOgGYQ_c8

American big block naturally aspirated engines will be tuned for crap fuel, if you've got a modern efficient turbo engine you should buy premium fuel to not ruin your engine.

[striking]

I'd love to know which new big block naturally aspirated American cars don't recommend premium fuel. I think the low octane fuel is really only there for the older cars (and for folks who don't understand octane ratings).

[lillecarl]

Recommendations only do so much, 80% of sales are crap fuel.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1270-dece...

Modern engines will pull back timing and decrease efficiency to prevent breaking down, raising the bar is in everyone's best interest, except the fat and happy Oil companies.