[FirmwareBurner]

>Fraunhofer Institute and the Max Planck Institute are perpetually well-funded, and are largely unaffected by politics

Oh, so I can freely go up against the German government's policies and have my career in academia unaffected and keep my government funding?

I lived in Germany and don't remember people or organisations ever being able to break government rules with no consequences (unless they had high friends in politics).

Something smells here.

[enaaem]

Funny thing is that UCLA is getting defunded because some people there were criticising a FOREIGN government.

[FirmwareBurner]

Go work in German academia and criticize the FOREIGN government of Israel.

I'm sure the German government will react with much more leniency than the US.

[ben_w]

In this case, the analogy should be "Go work in German academia *where the students* criticize the FOREIGN government of Israel."

AFAICT, no German academic institutions have lost funding as a result of the student's protests. Those protests were stopped, police action etc., but no funding change to the academic institutions.

[enaaem]

Note that you are affected by OTHER people's opinion on a foreign nation.

[davrosthedalek]

As long as you are not a "Beamte", i.e. a special case of state employee, yes.

[FirmwareBurner]

Sorry I don't buy it. Which examples are there of academics going against the government policies and still keeping their jobs and funds?

I lived in Germany and the moment you don't do what the government says you get the full shaft. Nobody let's you rebel against the government with no consequences, not in US, not in Germany, not in UK, nowhere.

People painting Germany like a bastion of free speech are coping hard. Only if you consider free speech doing and saying only what the government says.

[A_D_E_P_T]

It's hard to prove a negative. Can you show us an example of anything like what's happening at UCLA (collective punishment of an entire institution) or an example of an individual professor being harshly penalized or sanctioned for expressing personal political opinions?

[FirmwareBurner]

Don't spin this around, what I asked you is not a negative.

People here argued that the US is fascist because in academia you can't get away with breaking governments rules getting you defunded and pointing at Germany for being superior in this regard.

So then I asked for proof that in other countries you can get away in academia with breaking the government's rules and not get defunded. It really is that simple.

[davrosthedalek]

That's not what people have complained about. People complained about that in the US a government rule seems to be "don't criticize the government".

What about Christian Drosten who criticized a lot of the Corona decisions, Jan Boehmermann who is very critical but still employed by state-financed TV. Fridays for Future?

[FirmwareBurner]

> Jan Boehmermann who is very critical but still employed by state-financed TV.

What did he criticize? Did he ever criticize all the crimes due to illegal migrants? Of course not because that's not allowed by the state.

He is just a government mouthpiece acting like a jester to give people the illusion that the government allows criticism, but he's not a proper critic of the government, as those are banned.

[A_D_E_P_T]

It's hard to prove what you're asking because it's intrinsically not newsworthy -- whereas the reverse is. Surely if it's so bad in Germany, you should be able to dig up an example or two?

[margalabargala]

> So I asked for proof that in other countries you can get away with breaking the government's rules.

Other countries like the way the US used to be 15 years ago? Is your argument really "other people don't have rights, therefore we shouldn't either"?

[card_zero]

I agree that that was the opposite of proving a negative. The difficult thing would be demonstrating nobody ever did x.

[hnfong]

Generally, I do agree that in most if not all places, if you get government funding, you can't go against government policy.

However, in this case, it's quite hard to argue that Terrence Tao had anything to do with antisemitism or anything against Trump's policies. Actually I don't think Terrence Tao did anything that Trump cared about. This isn't really a free speech issue, it's more like some fundamental instability in the US, and maybe the US government is running out on money and trying to cut down on research expenditure using excuses.

[klooney]

Does AfD support qualify as forbidden speech?