[frollogaston]

No, they're definitely more attentive for the tip, I just don't like it. If they're going to be extra nice, I don't want it to be for money. Felt nice going to other countries like Australia where the customer isn't always right but they still do their jobs.

[ecb_penguin]

Bud, literally nobody gives a shit about waiting on you. They are literally only doing it for the money.

People in Australia are still doing it for the money, even if you don't realize it.

[ENGNR]

Restaurant staff are still nice in Australia, and friendly.

They don't HAVE to be, but they also don't have to do a bunch of unnecessary stuff to play the tips game, like fill up water that's barely empty or check in on how you're going all the time.

Maybe people in America like a "service heavy" experience, and the only way to get it is tips?

[bnralt]

> Maybe people in America like a "service heavy" experience, and the only way to get it is tips?

Interestingly enough, I find the service worse in the U.S. Part of the reason is that the tip system leads to waiters wasting time talking about a table, and waiters who aren't your own feeling like they don't have to do anything for you. It usually takes me 5-10 times longer to pay the check in the U.S. than it does in some other countries.

I wish restaurants started offering self service sections where you could order by phone and pick up the food yourself. Having to use waiters gives me the same feeling as when I drive through New Jersey and I'm not allowed to pump my own gas.

[frollogaston]

That's a good analogy. I appreciate good service, but tipping doesn't exactly lead to that.

[ricardobeat]

I think that’s pretty much the gist of it. People enjoy the diner-style pampering, and the only way to get that kind of service is if the employees are coerced to do it in order to get a living wage.

Happy employees who earn good salaries would not submit to ass-kissing and degrading work.

Knowing this is what makes the often terrible service in the Netherlands a bit more tolerable :)

[closewith]

People who are not under constant existential stress are generally friendly and nice to other people, even when there's no direct financial benefit.

If you need to pay people to be pleasant to you, that's a moment for introspection.

[retsibsi]

They're doing the job for the money. They're relating to the customer both as part of their job, and as an actual human interaction. (Obviously the extent to which this is true varies a lot depending on the individuals involved and the context.) Believe it or not, sometimes people are genuinely friendly, even at work, and even when they're not receiving any extra compensation for going beyond the required level of politeness. Those interactions are, IMO, worth more than forced "friendliness" from someone who is simply looking to get as much money as they can out of me.

[Cthulhu_]

I don't fully believe this. There will be a category of staff for who the job is just a way to make money, sure, usually while they're also going to college/uni. But plenty are in the industry because it's their vocation, because they enjoy it, because they're people-persons, because they're good at it.

[ghiculescu]

As an Australian who lived in America for 5 years - it’s bonkers to claim the service is better (or even as good) in Aus. It’s clearly more attentive in the states, anyone who says otherwise has an agenda.

Sometimes you don’t want good service - as in, you don’t want a server to talk to you. That’s a lot easier to find here.

[closewith]

Or they may have different values to you. I find American style surveillance services and false smiles pushing upsells to be the worst restaurant experience globally. I'd take any abrupt waiter over that.

[frollogaston]

Yeah, this exactly matches my experience visiting Sydney from the US, it was great. I'm not antisocial, in fact I enjoy talking to strangers, but it feels very wrong to pay them for it.

[freehorse]

They are still paid to be polite and friendly, just not directly from you. It can also be a selection process because the ppl who do not smile enough have been fired or not taken for the job in the first place. Having a boss in these industries “encouraging“ employees to smile more is not unheard of. It makes sense that it feels better than paying directly to produce this outcome, but in a last analysis it is not very different.

[skissane]

It isn’t just employees. The manager/owner of the coffee shop I buy coffee from most mornings is very friendly - I’m sure part of this is just her personality, but it is also good business sense - there are lots of other places people can buy coffee instead, and no doubt her friendliness is one of the factors that keeps many of her regular customers coming back. And this is Australia, so no tips involved-it would feel weird and embarrassing even to offer one.

[frollogaston]

It's not the same as working for tip.

[jumpkick]

As an American, having traveled in Europe a few times and dined out a lot, I much prefer the culture of just leaving me alone and letting me signal the waiter to come over when I need something.