[righthand]

Which solutions are you writing about that have been tried? Were those solutions properly funded? Were those solutions watered down into broken systems moments before signing the bill?

The past solution was not more humane. Tell me this, what part of the past solution was different from a prison? Why do you think they broke them up in the first place?

You want to round people up against their rights, then give everyone healthcare so you don’t burden them with debt by forcing them into care.

[Avicebron]

> Which solutions are you writing about that have been tried? Were those solutions properly funded? Were those solutions watered down into broken systems moments before signing the bill?

Last time I parked in that garage that's right across the street from Berkeley, I saw a middle aged woman screaming in some kind of mental anguish in a dirty sleeping bag covered in her own shit. From what I remember the students having a coffee at the cafe 20 feet away just sort of dealt with it, I think I was around Fulton and Oxford. If you can't propose a solution to this, I don't see what you are adding to conversation.

And yes, we should give everyone healthcare, that's a foregone conclusion here. The question is, _what_ is the solution to the above scenario. Is it a checkup, a clean needle (is that van still parked at the BART downtown idk), a pat on the back, a pile of job applications, a warm sandwich and a pamphlet that says vote democrat. Man we are so far beyond stupidity, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, here's your prompt. The above situation is a microcosm of a broader issue, engineer your way out of it, or stay out of the conversation.

[righthand]

You’re not listening then, you have to incentivize the use of healthcare. That solves that situation. If using healthcare isn’t a stigma that leaves you with a horrendously expensive bill, then people would feel confident in getting the help.

I am sorry you had to listen to someone scream. At least that person wasn’t unjustly locked up and stripped of their rights because you got anxiety. Her screaming is a 10000% better than creating another “mental health” private prison system.

[monero-xmr]

There are people who are literally insane. The issue isn’t “healthcare” it’s that they are literally insane. They don’t even know what is going on all day

[milkshakes]

it sounds like you are describing "mental health" issues. the provider of mental health care is.... the health care system.

[more-nitor]

dang seems your only parrot argument is "health care!!!"

hmm have you seen stabby maniacs and drug addicts in "healthcare provided countries"?

does having healthcare make those people visit those "providers" and go:

"Hello! I'm a maniac with mental issues/drug problems, and I'm visiting you to be treated! good day!"

[milkshakes]

what is your proposal exactly?

[reverius42]

They, um, might be able to become sane by using... healthcare?

[monero-xmr]

They are not capable of getting treatment themselves as they are insane and homeless. They need to be forcibly moved into an asylum

[righthand]

No. Asylums are just prisons and forcibly removing someone is stripping them of their rights. Try again.

[fc417fc802]

You didn't answer the question. What past solution was tried and actually worked and wasn't cruel or abusive to those who were "helped"?

People adopt this attitude that "obviously we just need to fix the problem using tried and true methods" but they can't actually articulate what those methods are. It's all just hot air.

I would like to suggest that at least in the case of the US the problems are largely political and thus there can be no straightforward solution since the people who would enact any solution are themselves the root cause.

> engineer your way out of it, or stay out of the conversation.

Yet a solution is conspicuously missing from your own rant.

[Avicebron]

> engineer your way out of it, or stay out of the conversation

The civilian conservation core, as conceived and executed in the 33-42 era, while updated to more modern standards of participation and scope would work wonders.

You're welcome.

EDIT: We're haunted by the same ghost. It's either up and out or over and through. Buenas noches.

[fc417fc802]

That would certainly reduce the issue but it fails to address the most severe cases. The people yelling at shrubs on the sidewalk probably aren't going to be compatible with such an effort.

[monero-xmr]

The solution is to take the screaming mentally insane off the street and put them into 24/7 mental care at asylums! Why can you not understand this clear solution?

[fc417fc802]

I mean I completely agree with you but you have to understand that historically that doesn't have a great record for the people removed. It hid them away from the rest of us but at least past implementations were notoriously cruel and abusive to the imprisoned patients.

[vel0city]

> historically that doesn't have a great record for the people removed

Is it better than what we're doing now? Having them live on the streets neglected, unsheltered, hungry, and sick?

Seems like what we're doing today has a worse record.

[monero-xmr]

We should hide them away in asylums and have modern techniques to prevent abuse

[righthand]

There are no modern techniques that’s why we left the old ways. The fact that you have nothing to offer but vague “use modern techniques” proves there are no modern techniques. It also shows you have a shallow understanding about health.

Do you understand how slippery of a slope “round them up and lock away mentally ill people” is? How do you determine who is dangerous and who is not? How do you determine which illnesses are for locking people up? How do you reason that with stripping away due process? Being mentally ill is not a crime.