[pclowes]

Sadly I have encountered this on multiple different kinds of European tech platforms. There is some deep cultural disconnect on understanding how/why American tech companies are successful.

Most often they seem to ape most of major US tech platforms functionality but critically somehow miss the "make something people want" and instead make something that:

- Sort of works? Has all the major screens but the whole experience just feels off and not well thought out.

- Is basically a way for locals to prey on tourists. Or is easily abused to scam etc.

Bluntly that is not a viable business model. Additionally tourism as a whole will not build a durable and innovative economy.

There is this distinct disinterest in serving the customer. Making the experience delightful, frictionless, feeling good is oddly foreign. I basically gave up trying to use local things unless I have to because when things go poorly customer support is basically non-existent.

I know Uber, AirBnb etc for better or worse. I don't want to deal with whatever surprising edge case or unexpectedly subpar experience is normed on the local platforms.

[twiss]

It's interesting to claim that tourism in Europe won't be "durable" at a moment when tourism in the US is sharply declining..

Anyway, Booking.com is a European company and has many more customers than AirBnB.

[TMWNN]

> It's interesting to claim that tourism in Europe won't be "durable" at a moment when tourism in the US is sharply declining..

Sorry to shatter your illusions, but for April 2025 (most recent month with final data) <https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2...>, Canadian visits are down 20% yoy but overall worldwide visits to US are up 1.3% yoy, including 17% yoy rise in Mexican visitors.

Full data <https://www.trade.gov/i-94-arrivals-program>

[pclowes]

I don't understand what you are trying to claim. 1. Booking.com is owned by Booking Holdings which is an American parent company. 2. US GDP growth has been massively outperforming the EU since 2008.

I am saying tourism is not something governments should want to heavily optimize an economy for. No amount of taking money from people on vacation will translate into building a more competitive or innovative economy.

[twiss]

Apparently Priceline.com Inc. took over Booking.com (founded in the Netherlands) for € 110 million, and then changed its name to Booking Holdings to reflect the fact that Booking.com was much bigger than Priceline.com. Indeed a great example of "American innovation" :)

[legitster]

Apples and Oranges. Booking.com is an aggregator.

Also, Booking.com is unbelievably exploitative and rife with dark patterns.

[twiss]

How so? At least Booking.com shows me the total price for an accommodation up front, without any additional fees or surprises coming up later in the booking process.

The same cannot be said for AirBnB: if I go to the home page right now it lists a bunch of bookings for e.g. "€ 80 for 2 nights", while when I click through the total price is €160. So apparently what they meant is "€80 per night". I'd call that much more of a dark pattern than anything I've seen Booking do.

[legitster]

Bookings.com runs some incredibly evil tactics. Generally they take about 20% of the booking fees. But they will do things like delist you if you have lower prices anywhere else, and then undercut your prices on their website.

My parents ran a small motel - the only hotel for miles around. But on top of the fees, if they weren't paying for additional promotions Booking would find unrelated distant hotels even when searching in the area. People would sometimes mistakenly book for a motel states away.

[twiss]

Fair enough, I'm willing to believe it's doing evil things to hosts on the platform, indeed.

But FWIW, the EU is at least making an effort to regulate the company: https://nltimes.nl/2024/09/19/eu-court-says-bookingcom-wrong... (which claims that Booking can no longer prevent hosts in the EU from offering lower prices elsewhere).

[TremendousJudge]

> Also, Booking.com is unbelievably exploitative and rife with dark patterns.

So it seems that Europeans have no issue doing the same thing as American tech companies?

[teekert]

But great for its _users_, so just like the US companies then.

[socalgal2]

I know this is an anecdote but I was curious if Europeans can tell me if this is a one-off experience or if there is something more to do this.

I was booked to catch a DBS train from Brussels to Berlin at 9:45 am. I get to the station at 9:25 looking for the train, can't find it. I go to the counter and get told the train came early at 9:15 then "Not my fault" (the first words out of the DBS attendant's mouth").

I got this same thing from a Swiss Air attendant when something happened. Nearly the first words were "Not My Fault"

I'm not sure I've ever heard that from a customer service rep in the USA and it was shocking to hear those words as the first like conditioned/scripted words from these reps.

I only brought it up because of it seemed to fit the previous comment of poor customer service.

[twiss]

I think there is some cultural difference between the US and Europe where in the US it's seen as somewhat OK to hold the customer service agents as personally responsible for the failings of the company, and treat them accordingly. Customer service agents in Europe dealing with Americans may feel the need to point out that they're not personally responsible for fear of said treatment. That (hopefully) doesn't mean that they won't try to help you, just that they hope you won't be angry at them personally.

It may sometimes be useful to verbalize this explicitly by saying "I know you're not responsible for this, but can you please do XYZ to solve the issue", and if it's a reasonable request I assume they'd be happy to comply. Depending on the country and culture, you may also need to be slightly more direct in asking (nicely!) for what you want, rather than hoping that the customer service rep will "make it right" by guessing what you want. You may perceive that as bad service but I think it's mainly about differing communication styles.

[comrade1234]

No I've never heard that. I'm an American living in Europe for 20 years. For Swissair you're more likely to hear "it's your fault" because Americans don't understand some concepts that are normal here, like reserving your seat , or, nor swissair related, wire transferring your chalet fee bank-to-bank rather than going through a third-party like Airbnb.

[stickfigure]

Wat? Trains departing early? How does that happen? Seems easy to fix, you just need a clock...

[Gud]

Sounds completely made up to me.

I travel a lot by train and I can’t remember once this has happened.

[ghaff]

I actually have with Eurostar. They changed the schedule and then it was kind of a mess to rebook with lots of finger pointing. (They had sent an email but it didn't land in my primary Gmail tag and I never saw it.)

[Gud]

So there had been information beforehand?

[ghaff]

Well, yes, assuming I read every bit of random email that arrives somewhere in my inbox.