[yieldcrv]

Additionally, many women are not mimicking their competition in how the career ladder is approached.

There is a fear of coming across as too assertive within the organization she is already employed in.

What’s understated is that plenty of men come across as too cocky too and get passed up within the organization and at other organizations.

But some men, with the societal incentive to get ahead, continues aiming higher at other organizations with the same playbook, and enough of them find the organization that is indexing for that attitude.

I dont have a way to quantify this behavior by gender, I frequently see women not considering it though, overindexed on getting the promotion in the org and navigating that.

The competition doesn’t care about their perception at the place they are already employed, and are aiming on getting offers all the time for leverage.

[steveBK123]

Yes I have this conversation with women sometimes where it's like "but if I am assertive and ask for money, my boss will judge me" type of societal norm compliance.

And look, maybe they will, but are they going to fire you or cut your pay? No.

You don't ask, you don't get.. that is the way of the world. If you constantly try to play it safe, you get less.

If you clip your own wings you can't point vaguely at "society" for it.

[lazide]

Fire or cut pay - now they might.

[steveBK123]

At the end of the day if you are getting fired/paycut for asking for a raise, you are either doing a bad job or at a bad company. The sooner it happens / you realize, the better.

This is the most edge of edge cases, and I've literally never heard of such a thing in 20 years working.

[lazide]

Said no one worried about being laid off ever.

[supriyo-biswas]

> But some men, with the societal incentive to get ahead, continues aiming higher at other organizations with the same playbook, and enough of them find the organization that is indexing for that attitude.

At a previous employer, I had skip levels who apparently only made disparaging statements in public settings (and only in public settings, they’d dismiss it lightly if you tried to discuss said feedback in private settings) involving their indirect reports; this was their apparent way of ruling with an iron fist so that they come across as effective managers and have more projects directed towards them by the leadership.

Even as a man, it was everything I never wanted to become; I can completely see why women, who generally pursue (or at least try to maintain the impression of) collaborative relationships often want to do nothing with it.

[yieldcrv]

What stands out to me most is that management isn’t the only way to make a lot of money in corporate environments, and that managing that way is not a necessary way to accomplish the same goals