[hopelite]

I find this topic rather interesting from a historical and sociopolitical one.

I’m assuming the creators of this site are attempting to make an economic argument for how Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad that the detentions are because it has “$1.49 billion” economic impact which is “$438.10 million annually in lost tax revenue”. But it is really a rather abusive perspective that ignores the inverse, because the inverse is that it is “$1.49 billion” that Americans are not earning and the “$438.10 million annually in lost tax revenue” would not have been lost if it had been Americans doing the work.

Arguably, the case could also even be made that the tax revenue would have been higher because Americans would have been paid higher wages simply due to the increased effects of the supply decline and demand that would increase wages/salaries.

Additionally, arguably, considering that official estimates are that foreign national workers of all manner send ~$150,000,000,00.00 out of the USA every year, that is also money that is not only not earned by Americans, or kept in the American economy.

No one seems to want to care about the actual American working and lower class. Why should foreign nationals that have broken the law and are being used by the ruling class to enrich themselves by lowering wages and salaries take priority over American citizens? Are we no longer doing this democracy thing? Do citizens no longer have rights in their own countries anymore; while we advocate for the “rights” of foreigners to remain in a country they did not even ask, let alone receive permission to be in?

It does not seem like that can go on indefinitely without things breaking, economically, culturally, socially. Are we just not going to care about that?

[leoqa]

I always like to frame it this way: ask someone what a reasonable response would be if they flew to Paris and then decided they didn’t want to leave. What is the French government allowed to do in their moral framework to enforce their immigration laws.

People don’t have a great answer. The asylum process actually works- it just turns out that many, many cases aren’t valid and it was abused to gain entry once we allowed asylum seekers to remain in country.

[djleni]

I’m sure some people don’t like any deportations, but I think the reason the bulk of people are upset with the current administration’s approach is its insane militarization, lack of due process, refusal to identify, apparent targeting of normal hard working people, sending people directly to foreign prisons, and sending people to war torn countries they are not from with minimal notice and no opportunity to contest.

Not that deportations are happening.

[leoqa]

Absolutely agree. I think the tactics and strategy are to blame here but ultimately I don’t think the administration is doing anything illegal. All cases I’ve seen where there was an alleged violation of due process were simply accelerated asylum denials with immediate deportation orders. I’m sure there have been some though, but I know local police, HSI and ERO folks that really don’t want to arrest non-criminal laborers yet are just following orders from the admin. I would be highly suspicious of any conspiracy that federal law enforcement agents are committing illegal arrests.

If it were up to me, I’d be pursuing some type of visa reform for permanent laborers that grants amnesty for those here with American citizen family members (i.e. birthright kids) as of a certain date. I’d make the asylum process occur outside of the country, signing agreements with the originating countries like Guatemala, Honduras to provide housing and food for asylum seekers while they pursue a claim.

[int_19h]

My answer would depend strongly on where the person is from and what their circumstances are like there.

[clayhacks]

It would not be a direct substitution of American labor if these people remain deported. There’s been labor shortages in many of these industries for years, there’s reason to believe that even more money will be lost by businesses that couldn’t hire enough people. I’d love it if they raised wages, but business owners usually aren’t keen on that, and if they did they’d likely raise prices as a result. The other possibility could be bankruptcy or offshoring of these businesses. I think if anything the $1.49 billion is an underestimate of the impact.

[djleni]

> the inverse is that it is “$1.49 billion” that Americans are not earning

This is only true if there are an equivalent number of unemployed Americans willing to work the same jobs for the same wage located in the same areas.