[cyberax]

You're thinking of Amsterdam? I used to live there.

Bikes are used there ONLY because there's no alternative to them. Transit takes too long, and there's no space for cars. And yet still around 20% of commutes in Amsterdam are by car.

> not every country has to be a nightmare for life quality like the US aspires to be.

The US is far, far, far ahead of Europe in urban quality of life that it's not even funny, if you disregard the dense hellscapes of SF and NYC.

This is easily seen in the number of children per capita. In modern societies, two groups of people tend to have more children ("inverted J-curve"):

1. Happy content people.

2. Desperately poor people.

Now look at Europe and the US, and I suggest looking at the US suburbs and not the dense cores.

[Kim_Bruning]

I've worked in Amsterdam. Used to take my car out to a park and ride station out in "the province" and joined the first standup of the day out of the "long yellow office building" [1], then a short walk to the tall grey one to actually get coding.

In or near Amsterdam I've seen and/or used busses, trains, ferrys, trams, bicycles, cars; and aircraft on approach to Schiphol looked like they almost flew past the window.

I also kind of like New Amsterdam (New York). It's cozy!

Can't argue with taste I guess. %-)

[1] Intercity trains: Long, Yellow, with electricity, free wifi, a place to sit, and you can bring your own Starbucks on board. Do try to avoid rush hour, or you'll be taking "standup" a bit too literally.

[cyberax]

> I've worked in Amsterdam.

So did I. And I had to be at the office at 7:30am. Even when the weather outside was "bracing".

> [1] Intercity trains: Long, Yellow, with electricity, free wifi, a place to sit, and you can bring your own Starbucks on board. Do try to avoid rush hour, or you'll be taking "standup" a bit too literally.

So basically, you wasted around 2 hours a day on the commute?

[Kim_Bruning]

Total commute time was about 3 hours (90 minutes each way). I do not live in Amsterdam. About an hour of that was wasted because I needed to drive myself. The rest was often spent in useful ways in the back seat of a lovely stretched yellow vehicle with lots of horsepower and a chauffeur.

[cyberax]

Now imagine that Amsterdam doesn't exist. I mean, other than a queer little museum town.

And you can just telecommute or use a nearby shared working space.

[Kim_Bruning]

Where possible, the best commute is no commute at all. No argument from me!