[psanford]

One of the key points to patio11's article is that there is only upside to negotiation with no downside. You are basically saying: negotiation doesn't work so why bother. Please stop.

I once negotiated a large raise at a job where afterwards my boss told me that he could not have justified giving me that raise on his own, but because I asked for it he was able to make the case.

Negotiating often works. It has no downside for you (besides making you feel uncomfortable) and major upsides that last well beyond your current role.

[SilasX]

That’s just not true. They can withdraw the offer when you try to negotiate it. It’s bad etiquette, but nothing physically stops them from it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jmaureenhenderson/2014/03/13/wh...

[__turbobrew__]

If the company withdraws the offer when you negotiate it isn’t worth working there anyways. What happens when you need to negotiate unpaid time off to look after your sick family or you need to have other accommodations?

[JacobThreeThree]

>it isn’t worth working there anyways

There is a potential downside, and it's this scenario because things go south.

[psanford]

There is no incentive for companies to do that. Its a thing that could theoretically happen in rare cases but essentially never does in the industry. Read patio11's article on why.

I think its telling that you have to reach for a >10 year old article for evidence that this is an actual risk.

[llama_boy]

While generally I've had great success with negotiating salaries (in multiple cases more than 10%, in one case more than 20%), I have had a company rescind an offer when I indicated their offer was lower than the range I was hoping for. Ironically, I was going to take the job at their original offered rate as their cause was well aligned with my morals and values and I was excited to work for them, but they decided that because they couldn't hit the range I wanted, they assumed I was just going to leave.

It all felt off to me - it should be the candidates job to accept or not, rather than for the company to make that assumption.

Doing a lot of hiring now, I always offer as close to or above the top of the range the candidate is looking for if possible, and definitely have pushed that up outside our budget when we stumble across great candidates. I want to build a team that sticks around, not just have people hopping every 18 months.

[SilasX]

I didn't have to, that's just a prominent, citeable example that immediately came to mind. People get ghosted all the time for being too difficult, it just doesn't make the news. It can always make sense to end negotiations when you expect the other person to have unreasonable expectations and/or if you have a backlog of difficult alternatives you can pick.

If you're going to reply, please drop the absolutes -- you're asserting a confidence you can't possibly have here. "No incentive"? Of course there is, you just don't think it's big enough to worry about. So say that instead of asserting a model that can't be true.

"No downside"? Come on, reality rarely works like that.

[OkayPhysicist]

I'm struggling to imagine the conversation that would take place. Do they just hang up on you / immediately shut up and have you escorted from the premises? I don't think I've ever gotten a written offer before a verbal one.

[psanford]

I'm comfortable with what I said.

It is fascinating that some people are so afraid of negotiating that they make up excuses why they won't try, and then they try to convince everyone else that negotiating is too dangerous to attempt.

[SilasX]

I wasn't making up excuses: the danger is real. If you don't have enough leverage to withstand the party walking away, you don't have enough leverage to ask for more. I didn't say "don't negotiate", or "it's too scary"; I'm saying, be ready for the consequences, and don't falsely zero out real risks. That shouldn't be controversial.

It's kind of telling that you have to resort to pathologizing me instead of addressing the concern.

[HeyLaughingBoy]

I literally had that happen to me at an annual review.

I got a great review and asked for more money than the raise my boss offered. He had no authorization to go that high, but because I asked for more and having had a good review gave me a strong position, he went to the VP and got approval for it.

It's just business: you're selling a skill. Try to get a good price for it.