[labrador]

As a father of a son, this is heartbreaking. I understand the motivation behind #metoo as outrage against predatory men. Men and women alike feel this outrage. But it's gone too far. My 39 year old single son was publicly shamed by Gen Z people around him for approaching a 22 yr old woman. Last I checked, 22 yr old women are adults who can say no if they want. It feels to me like my son has given up in this environment. He wants to get married and have kids, but it's not looking good at this point.

[bell-cot]

Yeah.

Obviously there's a huge amount of nuance in approaching another person. OTOH, I certainly know men who simply stay away from women - because "that's the best possible outcome anyway, and the least painful way of reaching it".

[nchmy]

Cold approaching someone to ask them out - especially if they hadn't yet AT LEAST exchanged smiles - seems to be the sign of a deluded/misguided person. And even moreso with such an enormous - and generally creepy - age difference.

More prudent and effective would be to approach a group, chat with them, and build a rapport. Then see where things go.

Even more prudent would be to not be so utterly pathetic and desperate, and instead just focus on doing things that bring you fulfillment. And then meet people who also do those things, some of who you will just click with. And perhaps even romantically. There's no "approach anxiety" that way because there's no "approach" at all! Just live an authentic, contented life - that's what's actually attractive to people.

The problem is that most people do not live an authentic life. But there's nothing stopping them from starting today and endless options for it. But keep "dating" out of your mind - just go and connect with people, develop interests, skills, self confidence etc

[nchmy]

Why approach a 22 yr old though when you are 39? Nothing about that makes any sense. He could literally be her father.

[labrador]

That's a very Gen Z attitude that appears to be common. It's not shared among people of older generations. A 22 year old is an adult that can determine who she wants to date without a bunch of young femininst men rushing to defend her, which is what happened to my son. "May June romances" are a thing throughout history. Only recently have we expanded this to include young men and older women.

[carabiner]

No, that's an "everyone younger than a boomer" attitude about age differences in relationships. In the early '00s I remember the "half your age + 7" rule being a decent guideline for what's socially acceptable. That would put your son's lower limit at 26.5.

[labrador]

So if a 22 year old woman wanted to date a 39 year old man you would discourage it and call it socially unacceptable? What if she was really wanted to? Or have younger generations now infantalized young women and decided they can't make up their own minds?

[voskresenie]

No point arguing with them. These people are just the puritans of the past -- they've just flipped what constitutes purity. I'm a younger millennial and it's hard enough for me to understand the supposed 'logic' of leftie morality police, and I've been surrounded by them my entire life. If you're a boomer (judging by you having a 38 y/o son), you're unlikely to ever understand the way they think, and it's not worth trying. Just reassure your son that there's nothing to be ashamed of for asking out an adult woman, and encourage him to brush it off rather than trying to justify it to anyone. They can smell weakness, and attempting to defend yourself against accusations is (somewhat validly) perceived as vulnerability. There's nothing you can say that will change their mind, and if you show them that it bothers you, they'll just double down on the attacks.

[voskresenie]

Nobody's obligated to follow your rules. We sacrificed the concept of societal obligation decades ago, and we're not bringing it back just because age gaps make you feel icky.

[voskresenie]

Because she's attractive and has plenty of time to have kids, so he doesn't have to rush into getting married and having children with her. Your question also presupposes that there's some reason that he should prefer or limit himself to women his own age, but there's literally no reason to take that as the default.

The real question is, why do you care? What happened to not shaming people for their personal sexual and romantic choices?

One thing I've noticed--there are two types of people who get upset at older men dating younger women: young single men and old single women. It's almost as if the criticism is thinly-veiled jealousy, rather than any sort of principled critique.

[nchmy]

Its sad that can't see why this is utterly bizzare, deluded/no recognition of how reality is, and likely creepy.

Moreover, at no point did you consider HER in your comment - do you think a 22yr old wants some 38 year old (of any sort) approaching her?

Ps I'm literally a late 30s, contendedly-single man - for personal reasons, not because of "how women are these days". If he was my friend (and someone so pathetic never would be), I'd have rapidly intervened as well, or admonished him when i heard about it. And then, tried to help him sort his life out.

[voskresenie]

>Its sad that can't see why this is utterly bizzare, deluded/no recognition of how reality is, and likely creepy.

This is all just a verbose way of saying 'it makes me feel icky'. Verbalize your issue with it, or keep your feelings to yourself. Lots of things make me feel icky, and I'm quite certain you'd call me mean things for many of them. Difference is, I'm not so self-obsessed as to think my personal disgust should matter to anyone other than me.

>Moreover, at no point did you consider HER in your comment - do you think a 22yr old wants some 38 year old (of any sort) approaching her?

She says, 'sorry, not interested', and moves on. It's not a big deal. Walking up to a person and asking them out doesn't require a person's consent, nor is it some terribly traumatic thing. In certain cases, it can be a minor faux pas, eg if her body language indicated she didn't want him to approach her, but it's still not a big deal so long as when she rejects him, he leaves her alone.

I didn't consider her in my comment because we know literally nothing about her other than her age and sex, and there's no reason to assume from those details alone that she wouldn't be open to going on a date with him. I could imagine it being uncomfortable for her, but that's not something anyone can know in advance (you do realize there are plenty of young women who date significantly older guys, right? it's not the norm, but it's also not exactly rare), and there's nothing so outrageous about asking a woman out that a person needs to avoid it in order to cater to the portion of women who would be uncomfortable with it. I am uncomfortable with lots of interactions I have, but that doesn't mean the other party is doing anything wrong. In fact, I've been uncomfortable being asked out before, by people who I believed should realize I wouldn't be interested in them -- but again, that doesn't mean they did anything wrong. This all has the air of nobility taking offense that a commoner would dare to speak to them.

>And then, tried to help him sort his life out.

Respectfully, a single almost-40 y/o man isn't in a position to help anyone sort their life out, particularly not one who gets upset over a grown man asking out a grown woman.

[nchmy]

Lol. Good luck to you

[labrador]

A lot of single women hoping to start families would be happy to have a tall, gainfully employed and hard working man take an interest in them. Your group has made rules that insure the fade out of the human race through depopulation, like Japan is experiencing.

It’s interesting that you’re in your late 30s, because you sound like the same kind of moral enforcer who publicly humiliated my son. Not protective. Performative.

You didn't ask whether the woman was harmed. You didn't ask what really happened between two people who knew each other. You rushed to frame a man who simply expressed interest as “pathetic” and “deluded.” That’s not feminism. That’s ritual purification through male scapegoating.

[nchmy]

Lol. Good luck to you all

[dinkusmcgrawkus]

Well, didn't you just prove his point and your comment is exactly the same sort of finger wagging, virtue signalling bs that got us here. SHE IS 22, SHE IS AN ADULT! If you think that throughout history, 40 year old men have NOT sought out younger woman to mate with, you're fucking delusional. SHE IS AN ADULT, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. Your "disgust" over the relationship is no different then having disgust over a black man dating a white woman. Go outside and touch grass.

[nchmy]

You seem to be the only one exhibiting disgust here, friend.

The main reason for my comment - though there's plenty more - is that a 38yr old and 22 yr old are literally a generation, and hopefully (for the older person's sake) immense life experience and maturity levels, apart.

I'm late 30s and couldn't possibly fathom being in a fulfilling relationship with a 22 year old - unless I was only interested in her as an object to be enjoyed.

That this guy had interest in her says to me that he's woefully misguided/underdeveloped. And she/the "defenders" could surely see that as well.

This is compounded by just cold approaching her in public. If they happened to meet through some common activity and got to know each other and hit it off - which is how normal people go about such things - it would be a different story.

I feel sorry for the guy, and all those here who are defending him.

[labrador]

You're assuming a cold approach from a stranger. They knew each other and were friendly. He asked, she declined. That should’ve been the end of it. But instead, she chose public shaming, which wasn’t about boundaries, it was about performing victimhood. That kind of social punishment teaches men to disappear, not to grow. What do you think that does to a generation of men already struggling with connection?

[tuesdaynight]

How did that public shaming happened, if you don't mind sharing?

I know that it's a different culture, but in my country (South America one), people would not see that age difference with good eyes. I'm not sure about public shaming (assholes are not a new thing, though), but I guarantee you that people would be weirded out by a guy almost in his 40s approaching a woman with half his age, and I live in a mostly "open" country in that regard.

It's not necessarily about the age gap, but her being younger than 25, at least here where I live.

[labrador]

By public shaming I mean going on social media to "cancel" him, with her friends piling on. I'm not worried about it anymore, since it appears to be something important to one slice of young Americans. It definitely was socially acceptable to most groups up until recently.

I can't speak to countries outside America. I'm sure there are a wide range of cultural norms across the globe. I recommended my son date women his own age and he agrees. He's thought about it and now sees he got older without updating his preferences for women. Now he realizes that a 22 year old woman is too young for him.

[nchmy]

I come back to my original comment - why did he have romantic interest in a 22yr old? Theres A LOT of women out there who would be vastly more compatible with him due to being in a similar stage of life.

And, moreover, if he already knew her, he should have been able it intuit a) if she was interested and b) what her character is like - is she the sort to try to actively shame people.

I really hope your son does deep introspection as a result of all of this, rather than blaming her, women, or an entire generation.

[labrador]

You've ignored all my arguments so at this point you're trolling