[mcsniff]

There's another word for "educating" people until they reach the decision you want them to.

Brainwashing.

You know it's completely possible that people have a different outlook or opinion or perspective on things and that is why they disagree with you, not necessarily a lack of education?

Some people think these are good ideas and they vote or welcome them. Some people think they are bad ideas and they vote or oppose them.

[iancmceachern]

No, education is not brainwashing. These terms have different definitions. One is by definition good, one bad. Words matter, definitions of words matter.

[thegrimmest]

I’d love an education system that only teaches scientific consensus, and leaves moral conclusions to parents and households. However I’m sure you’d appreciate that’s not what we have.

[compfingers]

what moral conclusions?

[thegrimmest]

For example: What’s the right way to live? How to relate to others? On what basis do we cooperate? What are/are not the overall goals of society? What’s the meaning of life? What is it to be a good person?

[iancmceachern]

These are most certainly left up to the individual. None of these things were part of my, and most folks' public education.

[thegrimmest]

I would disagree. Many ideological worldviews are taught in the curriculums of the public education system. For instance, the idea that homosexuality is wrong (not a view I personally hold) is not tolerated. Students are taught that homosexuality is a valid, normal, way to live (and I happen to agree).

However, whether it is right or wrong, valid or invalid, is an ideological argument. Schools should simply teach that it occurs in humans, and leave the question of whether to accept or reject it to parents (there are plenty of other natural behaviours many of us reject on ideological grounds, polygamy for instance). There are countless other examples where ideology is taught as curriculum.

[iancmceachern]

Fortunately our system is setup such that passionate folks like you can work to effect change. Go do it - volunteer for your local PTA, run for school board positions, show up to public hearings. Be the change you want to see in the world. God Speed my friend.

[thegrimmest]

Having the ideology of the majority taught in schools is the outcome of a strictly democratic process like the one you’re describing. I’m suggesting that the separation between church and state be extended to any ideological teaching.

[hn_acc1]

Maybe when churches start obeying the "no pushing any political candidate" laws and stop pushing things like "all scientists are evil", it would be a more acceptable position for those outside the church? Seriously - I've seen (not joking) statements like: all scientists know god exists, but deny it because they don't want to follow the laws of the bible. This was before I deconverted.

[iancmceachern]

I get it, I'm not trying to chat about that.

I am saying if you can convince enough other people that this makes sense you can effect change. And im wishing you good luck with that.

[thegrimmest]

> No, education is not brainwashing.

I’m directly responding to your point. Ideological education is brainwashing. In fact “brainwashing” is usually just another way of saying “an ideological education I disagree with”, also known as “indoctrination”.

[mcsniff]

I didn't say it was, but you've conveniently ignored the rest of the sentence to derail the discussion.